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Irish names help!

290 replies

nothingseasy · 17/03/2021 03:39

Hiya,
I'm calling out to all Irish speakers please.

I want to call my baby Ayveen In Irish. I've established from other threads that it's not Aoibheann or Aoibhinn or anything beginning with Aoi as this makes an ee sound. However nobody can conclusively say how it should be spelled.

I'd like to know what letters (diphthong/triphthong) make the aye/ay sound I am looking for. Do they exist in Irish?

Alternatives I've seen are

Éabhaoin
Éimhín
Aibhín

I personally favour the Aibhín but does ai in Irish make the sound ay?

Please help it's driving me mad!!

We are living in England and I want to keep a connection to my Irish heritage so I want an Irish name. We have trawled through them all and this is the only one we liked so when we found out it wasn't even said right we were devastated.

Please don't tell me not to bother with an Irish name in England or that I shouldn't give it an Irish name because they will have trouble e.t.c.

Help resolving the spelling is really all I am after.

Thank you x

OP posts:
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nothingseasy · 17/03/2021 09:50

@Baublebox

This one is also variable some say Enya some say Eithne 🤷‍♀️

OP posts:
nothingseasy · 17/03/2021 09:49

@ILoveStickers

Yeah I'm not bothered about the male female thing tbh, as long as it's spelled like it sounds.

It is getting a bit much but like I said we really have been through every Irish name going! My partner has a lisp so can't say many of them😆 and also English people can't pronounce a lot of names. They can say ay-veen right but it's the Irish spelling that's the issue.

Fiadh was the only other one we had on the list but when English people say it, it sounds like Thea or fear 🙄

OP posts:
Baublebox · 17/03/2021 09:45

Sorry to jump on this thread but I wonder if you could help me? There seem to be lots of people here who would know.
I have a new child called Eithne joining my brownies group (online at the moment)
How do I pronounce it? I want to make sure that I am saying it right so that she feels welcome and Google is giving different answers.
tIA

nothingseasy · 17/03/2021 09:44

@MindyStClaire
Not really because ay-veen is a name. It's quite common in Ireland. I didn't make it up. People are just spelling it wrong.

OP posts:
AfterSchoolWorry · 17/03/2021 09:43

Surely it's Éibhín ?

nothingseasy · 17/03/2021 09:41

@Crazybirdlady that's so lovely! This is a new way, Éabhaoin. I like it!

If you would read it as Ay-veen being an Irish speaker then hopefully it will make sense.

Thank you for your input, I really appreciate it x

OP posts:
MindyStClaire · 17/03/2021 09:41

To me it's a bit like saying "I like the sound of floor-vull as a name, how would you spell it in Irish?" and ending up with Flurbhall. You can of course have anything you like as a name, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea. And that's without the confusion of umpteen people going around with a name they pronounce in that way but with a different spelling.

I hadn't come across Éimhín before, given it's a real name it'd be the leading contender for me.

ILoveStickers · 17/03/2021 09:37

I think that poster is just using Evan (which is a form of John) as an equivalent.

I know a female Ailbhe (also a male saint) and a female Naoise, so I think a female Éimhín is fine.

But you might find, OP, that this is all a bit too much - there are loads of gorgeous Irish names, so I'm sure there's another one out there for you if this one just isn't quite right.

Crazybirdlady · 17/03/2021 09:36

Irish speaker here. Éabhaoin is perfect spelling for what you want and adheres to all rules. Éadaoin is a name with the same sounds for example.

Éabhín is an issue due to the a one side of bh and í on the other, but it's not completely butchering the language like Aoibheann pronounced ee-veen does. Aibhín would be pronounced as Ah-veen around here.

I don't see that the name will be a big issue as it's not actually difficult to pronounce at all. I'm sure the British are not so thick as to not be able to repeat a simple sound when told.

On the made up name point that someone made above, are all names not made up? Some just more recent than others. This one is well established, though often with nonsensical spelling.

Well done OP for honouring your heritage and for making sure the spelling makes sense! It's a beautiful name.

nothingseasy · 17/03/2021 09:35

Thanks @Neap
By consensus I mean an agreement on an Irish correct equivalent. I'm not looking for a consensus on the pronunciation of the Irish name Aoibheann. I know this is not ay-veen. I don't want any variation of this spelling no matter how many people use it for ay-veen.

I suppose I was hoping a good Irish speaker would just be able to say these 2/3 letters together will sound like ay. In much the way I keep getting told Aoi=ee. Eá perhaps?

I appreciate it is a mess which is why I'm reaching out for help.

OP posts:
Neap · 17/03/2021 09:19

@ILoveStickers

I'm not an Irish speaker, not at all - just someone with a vague interest.

Now I think of it, Éabhín is no good, because you have a one side of the bh and í the other, which doesn't work.

I was basing it on Éabha, but that's a mistake on my part.

Éibhín might work?

You're quite right -- I wasn't thinking straight as it was so early, and I woke up at four for some reason. I was thinking the same thing re Éabh etc.

In Irish there are names like Eábha =Ava so there must be a agreed way of spelling Ay-veen.

But that's what everyone has been trying to tell you, OP. There is no consensus, or, if by 'consensus' you mean 'what most people do', the consensus is the mis-spelling as Aoibheann. I'd be surprised if many native speakers used it for exactly the reasons @MindyStClaire gives, and literally everyone I have come across with a name pronounced Ayveen has written it as Aoibheann -- there are at least two at my son's school.

DS, who has an unusual Irish name, was born in London, and I absolutely get the desire to use an Irish name, but doesn't it water down your enthusiasm a bit to realise it's a bit of a mess?

rollercoaster.ie/pregnancy/baby-names/behind-the-name-aoibheann-gorgeous-unusual-but-how-to-pronounce-it/

This lists three (apparently) famous women all of whom spell it differently (Aoibheann, Aoibhinn and Aoibhin -- no fadas seem to be used in the article as a whole) but pronounce it Ayveen.

nothingseasy · 17/03/2021 09:12

Thanks @MindyStClaire, as I've said, all names are made up so I don't see why I can't find a spelling for a sound I like. The spoken tongue came first and the the written language, so it should be possible.

I am close to just dropping it altogether, this is my last attempt to get it right. I was hoping there would be a way.

OP posts:
nothingseasy · 17/03/2021 09:03

It would be nice if Éimhín was ay-veen because although a boys name at least it has a bit of history!

Are there any other opinions on the pronunciation of this?

OP posts:
nothingseasy · 17/03/2021 09:01

Although I suppose it's not the English translation I'm after just the Irish pronunciation so maybe it would work?

OP posts:
nothingseasy · 17/03/2021 09:00

Thanks, I have seen Éimhín before and wondered why the bh changes to a mh? I thought I had cracked it with this one too but I found a page which said this...

Mainistir Éimhín in Co. Kildare, which in English translates as Monasterevan. Éimhín was a monk (I'm not sure of the dates but I will post them when I get the book from downstairs but it would have been in Medieval Irish Times) who settled in Kildare and set up a monastery.

The closest English translation to the name is Evan.

Unless the English translation to Monastereven is wrong?

OP posts:
ILoveStickers · 17/03/2021 08:47

Or Éimhín? It's a male Saint - but it is a real Irish name, with a history, if that's important to you.

MindyStClaire · 17/03/2021 08:47

Yes, Éabhín is no good. I'd go with Éibhínn or Éabhaíonn myself. But it is a made up name so I'd steer clear personally. Aoibheann as Ayveen is a personal bugbear and I'd want to avoid all association! Nothing wrong with an Irish name with an Irish spelling (DD1 has one mentioned on this thread) but Ayveen isn't either, regardless of how it's spelled.

ILoveStickers · 17/03/2021 08:39

I'm not an Irish speaker, not at all - just someone with a vague interest.

Now I think of it, Éabhín is no good, because you have a one side of the bh and í the other, which doesn't work.

I was basing it on Éabha, but that's a mistake on my part.

Éibhín might work?

nothingseasy · 17/03/2021 08:34

At the end of the day we have our hearts set on this name. It is a name used a lot in Ireland so it has become a name like it or not.
If there was a more "correct" or true to the language way of spelling it, maybe people would choose to spell it that way instead of using the incorrect way and that's what I am trying to find a consensus on.
The Irish language and name is important to me as a connection to home. I've had to give up everything linked to home living here, which is my choice but I still line for home like all Irish people do and I just want something for Irish for my baby.

In Irish there are names like Eábha =Ava so there must be a agreed way of spelling Ay-veen.

OP posts:
nothingseasy · 17/03/2021 08:23

Thanks @SeanChailleach

I'm not usually a stickler for set rules of language and I appreciate fluidity however from what I've read there is no movement with the Aoi at the beginning.

The ending for me is more variable than the beginning sound. It's really the beginning sound I am after.

Do you have any ideas for this ay sound? In your opinion would Éabhín or Aibhín work?

I know there is no meaning behind these "new" spellings, as there is with Aoibheann as it's actually a spoken word in Irish with a lovely meaning(I just wish I liked the sound as a name)

OP posts:
nothingseasy · 17/03/2021 08:13

Thank you @Neap and @ILoveStickers

So you both think Éabhín? Are you both Irish speakers?

OP posts:
nothingseasy · 17/03/2021 08:10

@spookycookies
Thank you but I would really appreciate only constructive reply's to try and solve the issue. All names are made up because language is made up but there are rules and I would like to make sure I am following them.

OP posts:
SeanChailleach · 17/03/2021 07:41

Dia's Muire duit agus Pádraig, a OP.

Is é "Aoibheann" an t-ainm. Mar seo:
Dia duit, a hAoibhinn! ( Gairmeach)
Leabhair Aoibhinn. (Ginideach)

One name, two forms. Often in Ireland the vocative/genitive form is spoken but the nominative written when in English.

The pronunciation of both forms is different in the dialects.

In Munster inn is said with a long nasalised i. In Ulster it's a short i without nasal sound. I do about Conamara.

The aoi is various sounds unspellable in English. Reducing it to ee is a Learner Irish simplification. The i is merely a glide vowel to facilitate the slender consonant. It's sad when we allow the shoes of writing to crush the soft feet of the spoken language.

Neap · 17/03/2021 07:23

@Footle

Lovely bit in Catastrophe, the chap failing to pronounce his daughter's name, Muirrean.
That’s not at all similar. Muireann is an actual standard name with one (perfectly straightforward) pronunciation.
Neap · 17/03/2021 07:21

@spookycookies, for one thing, there is no ‘established’ spelling, because it’s usually written (wrongly) as Aoibheann. In Irish, there would be a number of different possible ways of writing the sounds that make up ‘Ayveen’.

I mean, I don’t disagree with you in that it’s not a name I would ever use, in or out of Ireland, because every time I come across it I have to wonder whether I’m going to pronounce it (correctly) as ‘Even’, given that it’s very likely the owner of the name pronounces it ‘Ayveen’, because that’s how her parents taught her to pronounce it, and it seems like a needless complication.

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