Irish names help!

nothingseasy · 2021-03-17T03:39:44+00:00

Hiya, I'm calling out to all Irish speakers please. I want to call my baby Ayveen In Irish. I've established from other threads that it's not Aoibheann or Aoibhinn or anything beginning with Aoi as this makes an ee sound. However nobody can conclusively say how it should be spelled. I'd like to know what letters (diphthong/triphthong) make the aye/ay sound I am looking for. Do they exist in Irish? Alternatives I've seen are Éabhaoin Éimhín Aibhín I personally favour the Aibhín but does ai in Irish make the sound ay? Please help it's driving me mad!! We are living in England and I want to keep a connection to my Irish heritage so I want an Irish name. We have trawled through them all and this is the only one we liked so when we found out it wasn't even said right we were devastated. Please don't tell me not to bother with an Irish name in England or that I shouldn't give it an Irish name because they will have trouble e.t.c. Help resolving the spelling is really all I am after. Thank you x

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LizzieAnt · 03/04/2021 13:40

Yes, use of the fada is a good indicator all right Gooseysgirl. There are loads of people called Sean, Donal, Siobhan etc who don't bother with the fada and still pronounce their name as if the fada were there, but it's a different story with Caitlin/Caitlín all right.

Gooseysgirl · 03/04/2021 09:17

Unless it is spelled Caitlín with the 'fada' on the second i, I would automatically pronounce it 'Kate-Lynn'. The only Caitlin I know who pronounced it the Irish way (as given by her parents) has legally changed her name to Cathleen to avoid all the mispronunciations!!

Original poster

nothingseasy · 02/04/2021 18:55

@Apileofballyhoo

Any news, *@nothingseasy*?

Hiya, no nothing as yet. I might send them a prod🤔

OP posts:

CatsBooksAndCoffee · 01/04/2021 23:42

@Knitterbabe

Slightly off thread; if Caitlin is not ‘Kate-lynn’, what is the correct pronunciation, please?

My Mayo mum pronounces it "Cotchleen" .

LizzieAnt · 01/04/2021 20:24

A link to the pronunciation here -
forvo.com/word/caitl%C3%ADn/

It varies a bit with dialect.

LizzieAnt · 01/04/2021 19:59

Kathleen

Knitterbabe · 01/04/2021 19:37

Slightly off thread; if Caitlin is not ‘Kate-lynn’, what is the correct pronunciation, please?

WiseOwlOne · 01/04/2021 17:37

I saw Eimhin on a file (through work) and thought of this thread!

LizzieAnt · 01/04/2021 16:05

I think it was decided that Éabhín breaks the 'caol le caol, leathan le leathan' spelling rule @Blackberrybunnet. With a few notable exceptions (compound words, for example), vowels either side of a consonant must match to be either both slender (i or e) or both broad (a, o or u). This rule is in place because the pronunciation of the consonant can differ depending on whether it's next to a broad or slender vowel. So the vowels either side of consonants usually need to match.

Blackberrybunnet · 01/04/2021 15:10

Should have written Éabhín, sorry, missed a letter out. Typo.
BTW, did read the thread. @nothingseasy only wanted help with resolving the spelling.

BananaBreakfast · 01/04/2021 11:38

@blackberrybunnet and @radyward you might want to read the thread

Blackberrybunnet · 01/04/2021 11:27

I do not know for sure if Ayveen is a name or not ... however, I'm going to apply what little knowledge I have to building a vaguely acceptable Irish spelling.

Éa (as in Éamonn) bh (as in Siobhan) ín (as in Caitlín)
That gives you Ébhín.

Sorted.

Radyward · 31/03/2021 20:22

Your child will for ever have to spell her name to others which is a royal pain.my own DD has a name which can be spelt in irish/french/english. The most popular version is english and thats it. I do think you have every right to decide a name regardless of country lived in but its your chil who will have a lifetime of pain not you in this but whatever

Apileofballyhoo · 31/03/2021 20:10

Any news, @nothingseasy?

Apileofballyhoo · 21/03/2021 14:59

Yeah, I see what you mean, it's difficult to say a followed by a vowel all right.

SeanChailleach · 21/03/2021 14:51

Oh I see, no, what I mean is because with names you use the vocative a lot, and Aébfhinn starts with a vowel, the spoken rhythm of the word is altered, and the beat maybe shifts from Aéb to Finn.

Apileofballyhoo · 21/03/2021 14:27

Ah right, I was wondering because I thought you were saying that's where the ín sound might have come from. Afaik the 'a' is always to be said in speech in 'a Sheáin, a Mháire'.

SeanChailleach · 21/03/2021 14:12

@Apileofballyhoo I am not saying the feminine nouns were slenderised in the vocative, no. I didn't check at all and I am hazy on the vocative.

Original poster

nothingseasy · 21/03/2021 12:56

@SeanChailleach

Sorry op. I think with these puzzling names, putting our Irish heads on to think about them helps. What I said was, in my first post I suggested that although people are recording the nominative form as the name, perhaps what they are saying is a different grammatical form.

Then I realised I made a mistake saying the vocative particle prefixes h to vowels. It doesn't, it's blended into the vowel. That affects the weight of the syllables, making finn longer.
That lead me to think what if mums guessed at the declension and put Aeife with Éire, ábha, and Deirdre which had -inn endings in Old Irish. Most personal names aren't included in the dictionary and the books of names don't give you all the forms. And anyway, people mixed up declensions in the 5th century just as we do today. That would be an alternative etymology and points to Aeifinn as a possible spelling, which is elegant.
My "Aobh-Fhinn" theory is the strongest for the pronunciation I think.
I think names don't work like ordinary words, and if you want the sound Aiveen there has to be a way to spell it in Irish.
Someone was wondering upthread if it was a modern invented name but no, it's absolutely ancient and there were several princesses with the name according to Maguire and Ó Corráin's book.

That's fine, I like that you can talk to each other in Irish and I'm sure it does help with figuring this all out. It annoys me that I don't have a better handle on the language. I wish I could read it and speak it better.

I think the Aobh-Fhinn theory seems to make sense to me. Is the Aobh in Aobh-Fhinn is pronounced Ayv?

I think I need to get that book!

OP posts:

Apileofballyhoo · 21/03/2021 12:50

Sean are you saying female names are slenderized in speech? Or were in old Irish?

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 21/03/2021 12:37

Do you think that the old name Aeifinn may have become interchangeable over time with the adjective 'aoibheann' and that form of the name, Aoibheann/Aoibhinn Sean?

SeanChailleach · 21/03/2021 12:32

Sorry op. I think with these puzzling names, putting our Irish heads on to think about them helps. What I said was, in my first post I suggested that although people are recording the nominative form as the name, perhaps what they are saying is a different grammatical form.

Then I realised I made a mistake saying the vocative particle prefixes h to vowels. It doesn't, it's blended into the vowel. That affects the weight of the syllables, making finn longer.
That lead me to think what if mums guessed at the declension and put Aeife with Éire, ábha, and Deirdre which had -inn endings in Old Irish. Most personal names aren't included in the dictionary and the books of names don't give you all the forms. And anyway, people mixed up declensions in the 5th century just as we do today. That would be an alternative etymology and points to Aeifinn as a possible spelling, which is elegant.
My "Aobh-Fhinn" theory is the strongest for the pronunciation I think.
I think names don't work like ordinary words, and if you want the sound Aiveen there has to be a way to spell it in Irish.
Someone was wondering upthread if it was a modern invented name but no, it's absolutely ancient and there were several princesses with the name according to Maguire and Ó Corráin's book.

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 21/03/2021 12:22

You will get there in the end. It does take a lot of thought.

Dora26 · 21/03/2021 11:11

Eibhin

Original poster

nothingseasy · 21/03/2021 11:02

@IsFuzzyBeagMise

I like many Irish names, *@nothingseasy*, though not all of them. We called our son Eoin; one Irish name out of three :) I think there is a lot to be said for keeping names as straightforward as possible. While I like Aobhinn, the complexities of the pronunciation would put me off using it. My father-in-law at the time I was expecting, used to say to me, 'just choose something we can pronounce!'

Síofra, Ríona, Clíona, Róisín, Bláithín, Aoife, Éabha are lovely names, I think. And there are others too, I'm sure.

Yeah I wan't to try pick an easy one to say even if you can't read it from the spelling. Thats why I don't really want Fiadh because English people say it like fear or Thea. Bláithín, I think needs an Irish tongue as well but some of the others are okay Ríona, Róisín even Síofra and Éibhín, aren't really hard to say just hard to read from the spelling.

I do want it as easy as possible but I need to satisfy my want for an Irish name and my partners and having it easy enough!! It's a tall order!

How does anyone name a human, it's so hard!

OP posts: