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Pronunciation of Cearbhall?

31 replies

TooTiredToCoo · 21/02/2021 00:21

Can any Irish people out there tell me the proper way to pronounce Cearbhall?

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LizzieAnt · 23/02/2021 20:38

It is frustrating SeanChailleach. I do find it strange that in most primary schools - not including Gaelscoileanna - the phonics of the English language are taught, but the phonics of the Irish language aren't, at least not formally. If the idea is that the schoolchildren will instead pick up the sounds by imitation, then there needs to be a higher standard of Irish among primary teachers. One recent study of a sample of schools rated teachers' standard of Irish as 'high' in only 22% of cases. (This doesn't include the Gaelscoileanna where the standard's higher.) So sometimes the Irish letter/word sounds just aren't being passed along correctly unfortunately. There's also the issue of standard Irish vs the dialects of course.

My own Irish isn't as fluent as I'd like either though, so I have some sympathy for the teachers Smile

SeanChailleach · 23/02/2021 14:01

@LizzieAnt nach bombach é sin? Is iomaí na fuaimeanna éagsúla i nGaeilge ná i mBéarla na hÉireann.

LizzieAnt · 23/02/2021 12:51

Children are just expected to pick up the Irish language sounds in school for the most part SeanChailleach. Many of the teachers in primary schools aren't fluent speakers though, so they're getting some of the sounds wrong themselves. With the exception of the Gaelscoileanna, English phonics are taught formally in school (Jolly Phonics etc), but not Irish phonics, which is a bit of a pity imo. Then again much of the English spoken in Ireland has been influenced by the Irish language anyway, I suppose.

SeanChailleach · 23/02/2021 12:19

Do you not do that in school then? When I did my degree most of the students were raised in Ireland and seemed to have the sounds. There were four of us from England. I have fond memories of sitting in a freezing classroom with the teacher refusing to let us go until we could say: "chuir mé fraoch sa bhiotáille a bhí sa bhuidéal" correctly. (Something about brewing moonshine flavoured with heather.) We used to sit huddled on the beach with the Atlantic winds buffeting us, repeating words over and over trying to sound like cainteoirí dúchais. The seagulls probably thought we were mad.

LizzieAnt · 22/02/2021 11:21

Well, it's attributed to him anyway.

LizzieAnt · 22/02/2021 10:55

Wardering around the kitchen like an eegit trying this SeanChailleach, but I can't get it to work. Kids think I've gone mad Grin. I'm not a native Irish speaker or a linguist though so that could be it.
The explanation from Fr Dineen is very interesting -though Cearbhall is described elsewhere as being derived from cearbh, meaning to cut or to hack.
I don't think there's much doubt that Car-ool/carúl is a pronunciation of Cearbhall, but I don't think it's the only one? I'm not completely sure though.
Bh is pronounced variously depending on context. A rule often given is w after a broad vowel as a pp mentioned, but that very much depends on dialect, and also on the position of bh/mh within the word, what letter it's next to....I'm afraid I'm not knowledgeable enough to give a detailed description though. The ú or oo sound may be found when bh is at the end of a word in Ulster Irish I know.
Cearbhall has been well used as a name by the Ó Dálaigh's for centuries.The beautiful song Eileanóir a Rún was composed by a 17th century Cearbhall Ó Dálaigh - Niamh Farrell and Linda Nic Leòid sing a lovely version of it.

SeanChailleach · 22/02/2021 08:36

But wait up, ladies! Father Dinneen himself has advice for us. His dictionary does not normally include personal names, and cearbhal isn't listed. However, "Cearrbhal" is there, see "carrbhal", which he says is pronounced "carúl" and means "carol, song, conversation". This makes it look like a Gaelicisation of the Latin, French, or English word.

By the way, let's be clear that bh and mh are not v or w. If you say either b or m but without closing the lips together, you will get the sound. Try saying "a ball a bill" and "a mall a mill" without closing your lips and see what you get.
Smile Star

LizzieAnt · 21/02/2021 23:00

It depends on the dialect.

abiirthdaycake · 21/02/2021 21:18

"bh" would be pronounced as a w when it's broad, right?

bridgetreilly · 21/02/2021 18:55

If you don't know how to pronounce, don't call your child that.

TooTiredToCoo · 21/02/2021 18:50

@SeanChailleach

It’s not my son’s name. It’s just a name I found on a list of baby names that I liked the look of and I was just curious about the pronunciation.

OP posts:
LizzieAnt · 21/02/2021 13:15

Yes, there seems to be a variety of ways of pronouncing this name. My mother always said it as in the link SionnachGlic gave above (ie as Car-ool), but it does look like it should read Car-val (with the first syllable like the beginning of Carol). However bh isn't always pronounced as a 'v' - it may be pronounced more as a 'w' sound in some dialects. Sometimes it's not pronounced in the middle of a word.
Here is another link to a fluent Irish speaker saying Cearbhall.
forvo.com/word/cearbhall/
The surname Ó Cearbhaill, which derives from the first name, was variously anglicised as O'Carroll, O'Carvill, O'Carwell, O'Carrowill, which seems to indicate different pronunciations of the name too.

SeanChailleach · 21/02/2021 12:43

Charles in England:

Chahrrlz - West Country
Charrels - Far North
Chahlz - posh South
Chawlz - vair posh

Joyilz (Birmingham)

What a tricksy name!

Seriously op, is that your son's name or are you just considering it?

TooTiredToCoo · 21/02/2021 12:25

Interesting, lots of replies it’s Car-ool. I was pronouncing it Ker-val.

OP posts:
NoSquirrels · 21/02/2021 09:38

This thread does not seem particularly helpful on definitive pronunciation so if you’re considering it for a baby, OP, I think I’d steer clear! Grin

SionnachGlic · 21/02/2021 09:21

forvo.com/word/cearbhall_%C3%B3_d%C3%A1laigh/

It is name of former Irish President...
It is Car-ool. Most times the 'bh' gets the 'v' sound but not in this one. When he used anglicised version he pronounced it Carroll...

If that helps...it is a lovely old name

SecretIdentitee · 21/02/2021 09:19

While bh does normally give a V sound, in this case the first poster is correct and it would largely be pronounced Car-ool as that's how Cearbhall O Dhalaigh, Irish president from the 70s pronounced it.

Twistered · 21/02/2021 09:16

@MadeForThis

Definately not pronounced Cur

LApprentiSorcier · 21/02/2021 09:15

If you live in England your child will need to get used to being called 'Sear ball' .

MadeForThis · 21/02/2021 09:11

Curvill

Spudlet · 21/02/2021 07:56

It’s a nice name, but unless you are in Ireland your child will have a lifetime of ‘Oh, that’s an unusual name, where’s it from?’ My dad is from NI but moved England and has an Irish name (although one that’s straightforward to pronounce without knowledge of Irish IYSWIM) and always had this - drove him nuts.

HarrietM87 · 21/02/2021 07:53

I’d say carval. I’m from NI.

mydailymailhell · 21/02/2021 07:53

Kyar- vull

Never heard of this name before though!

SeanChailleach · 21/02/2021 07:48

www.libraryireland.com/names/men/cearbhall-carroll.php
Carroll Grin Kerval or Charvil, which is quite nice

RubysArms · 21/02/2021 03:48

K'yar-vull