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Baby names

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Original poster

Curious why Joseph is decidedly unaristocratic

61 replies

janiejones5446 · 08/08/2020 01:21

We have pretty much decided on the name Joseph for our upcoming baby. And not that it's a bad thing (in fact, I like it), but on inspection, it seems that not a single current or presumptive duke, marquess, or earl has this name, which surprises me given its status as one of the enduring classics. Just curious as to why this is, and perhaps if anyone has any insights on this name and it's social history in general.

Again, we've pretty much settled on the name, so this is more out of curiosity than anything. TIA.

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Davespecifico · 13/08/2020 15:58

Ilovestickers has then answer.

Hippofrog · 13/08/2020 15:55

I thought James was a Catholic name and derived from Hebrew. That’s a aristocratic name though.

Alongcameacat · 13/08/2020 15:50

JaJaDingDong

I'm old school, I would immediately think "Catholic"

Your sentence doesn’t make sense. are mixing religion with class???

GiantKitten · 13/08/2020 10:08

And Yosef = Joseph.

GiantKitten · 13/08/2020 10:05

Shmuel I think is the Hebrew name?

JacobReesMogadishu · 11/08/2020 21:15

Bit like Samuel really? No king Samuels or aristocracy that I can think of.

Is Samuel a Hebrew/Jewish name?

areyoubeingserviced · 11/08/2020 21:05

I love the name Joseph. It’s a strong, classic name.

JaJaDingDong · 11/08/2020 18:59

It's my ds's name. We chose it because to us it can be any class so doesn't pigeonhole him straight away

I'm old school, I would immediately think "Catholic".

Well, not immediately, but if asked anyway.

Original poster
janiejones5446 · 09/08/2020 14:05

www.historyextra.com/period/norman/baby-names-popular-royal-history/

Really informative article on naming trends for any interested. While it doesn't mention Joseph specifically, we can assume it was probably one of the new testament names associated with the rise in power of the RC church (though it is OT too). Interesting stuff. I never apreciated the social history one could gleen from baby names. Today, it seems like you just pick one out of a hat, more or less.

OP posts:
Tillygetsit · 08/08/2020 22:11

It's my ds's name. We chose it because to us it can be any class so doesn't pigeonhole him straight away.

Augustseemsbetter · 08/08/2020 20:43

I just remembered another famous one, Joseph Paxton, Gardner, designer of the Crystal Palace and general genius.

Was from a poor background but worked for an aristocrat the Duke of Devonshire at Chatsworth!

CaptainMyCaptain · 08/08/2020 20:06

[quote iklboo]@CaptainMyCaptain - no his real name was Joseph Merrick. It was misreported / mistaken to be John and it stuck in the film. [/quote]
Also Wikipedia, I checked, but I'll take your word for it.

zigaziga · 08/08/2020 18:57

It is interesting.

I also think of Oliver - a classic name that wouldn’t be used in the RF.. presumably because of Cromwell (and for the same reason, also not nearly as popular in Ireland as in the U.K. I think?)

Do you think William and Kate just “know” which names they can and can’t use or do you think they need to run ideas by courtiers first?

JaJaDingDong · 08/08/2020 18:34

I think it would be considered a Catholic name

Random789 · 08/08/2020 18:31

I have a son called Joseph and one of the things I like about the name is that, thanks to Jesus's (step?) dad it does have connotations of being solidly, salt-of-the-earthly non-elite. How could an aristo name their child after someone who set aside his personal dynastic honour to take care of God's wild oats?
I guess that, on the other side, there is the Old Testament Joseph with his fancy coat and eventual nouveau riche success in Egypt. But, on balance, Joseph is still the name of a horny-handed son of toil, a skilled worker.

iklboo · 08/08/2020 18:24

@CaptainMyCaptain - no his real name was Joseph Merrick. It was misreported / mistaken to be John and it stuck in the film.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/08/2020 18:19

My favourite boys' name, jointly with James. Sadly, not my husband's favourites so we didn't use either name for our son. He didn't get his first choice either, to be fair.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/08/2020 18:17

David was the given name of Edward VIII. He decided to use Edward when he ascended to the throne. There have been Scottish kings called David but no English or UK kings as yet.

Original poster
janiejones5446 · 08/08/2020 16:35

I do recall seeing a at least a few each of David, Michael, Benjamin, and Simons among the dukes et al, as well. There was one Jake but no Jacob.

OP posts:
june2007 · 08/08/2020 16:34

I like Josaph it was on my short list. But the this ruins it. "Hi my name is Joe and I work in a button factory......."

dementedma · 08/08/2020 16:33

We have a Joseph. I love it. It never gets shortened to Joe as we just say politely "It's Joseph, not Joe".
Round here, Jamie is a more upper class option. Lots of posh Jamie's in Scotland

ZoyaTheDestroyer · 08/08/2020 16:27

Elizabeth is in the New Testament! Luke is the only book to mention her.

Augustseemsbetter · 08/08/2020 15:54

It's a traditional classic for some of us..

daisypond · 08/08/2020 15:49

Old Testament names are rarely used for the royal family because they point to either Jewish or nonconformist backgrounds, and the royal family/ traditional aristocracy is neither. There will be some exceptions - Elizabeth for one. But names can be used if they use the anglicised form of a Jewish names, eg James instead of Jacob. Old Testament names come out if a completely different naming tradition and are not “traditional classics” in that sense. American names are different because the country was populated by nonconformists early on, so OT names like Joshua etc are more traditional there. You probably don’t even get very mainstream, but OT, names like Daniel in the royal family.

Augustseemsbetter · 08/08/2020 15:43

A famous English Joseph is Joseph Priestley who discovered oxygen.

A notable example of an 18th century Non-Conformist.

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