Why is it so offensive to say that a name will date?

No, you got it. They all feature in Jane Austen, some of them multiple times. (I omitted some that are very out of fashion right now such as Susan, Fanny and Margaret, and the ones like Lydia and Marianne that I think would have made the list too obvious.)

And yet a lot of them have been described as names that were popular in the 1980s (which they were).

These are what I would call timeless names. Even if they're not in fashion right now, they'll never be dated.

I would also add royal names such as Alexandra, Victoria and Alice to the list of names that will never go properly out of fashion.

peperethecat this is driving me mad!

Most are Jane Austen characters. But not all, I think...

OK, here's a question.

What do the following names all have in common?

Elizabeth/Eliza
Harriet
Charlotte
Lucy
Emma
Jane
Caroline
Mary/Maria
Sophia
Catherine
Julia
Hannah
Anne/Anna
Sarah
Eleanor/Elinor
Louisa
Penelope
Clara

@LotusClover I don’t think it is offensive... I see offensive things on here all the time, but this isn’t one of them. As it’s a given that everyone’s taste is different, there are more evolved and diplomatic ways to give constructive criticism than things like that’s absolutely horrible or that’s absolutely ridiculous... I’m not easily offended but I just don’t engage with people who are unnecessarily cruel. It goes without saying that not everyone will share your taste and feel positively about your choices and I’m all for not being patronised especially when you’re openly inviting opinion, but it costs nothing to be nice and we’re all in possession of the capacity to say things in a civilised way, just some people choose not to because it’s through a screen. But feeling something may be very ‘of a moment’ and therefore date in future is fair comment and constructive I feel, as are concerns about Burdensome alternative spellings, widely known negative associations, name suitability on an adult as well as a child, bullying potential and the like. These are all things you have to consider, and I would imagine why people are asking about the thoughts of others... you can’t expect to ask the question to a group of people and solely get a positive response.... I just don’t like uncalled for nastiness more pertaining to natural variation in people’s personal taste.

@peperethecat

I see where you are coming from and what you're saying makes sense. To me, Hannah/Emma sound dated as they're tied to my childhood when they were at their peak. I'm guessing we aren't the same kind of age so may not have the same associations. I think they're perfectly nice by the way! I wouldn't be put off a name because someone else thought it was dated.

I am guessing names like Margot and Mila have become popular fast because of the actors or Luna because of Harry Potter? Maybe these are the names of today that will date? I still think they're all really nice names though.

so one person's timeliness classic is another's persons dated and dull

I would disagree with this. I think some people say "dated" when what they really mean is "dull".

For me, "dated" means "this is a name that was only ever popular at a certain very specific point in history". So you might say Kelly is dated now, to use an example given above, because nearly everybody called Kelly was born in the 1980s, or you might say a certain name that is popular now will date because you think it will go the same way as Kelly.

But you can't really call a name like Hannah "dated" even if it was particularly popular in the 1980s, because it has also been used throughout history and continues to be used now.

According to Dark Greener, Hannah was ranked no. 62 in popularity in 2018, whereas Kelly was ranked 1436 (so I guess there must be a few baby Kellys around).

When people say Hannah is dated, they don't mean it's dated, they mean they think it's dull and they don't like it. That's not the same thing.

Whether a name is dated or timeless isn't really a subjective thing. The statistics tell us whether it is an enduringly popular name that has been more or less fashionable at certain points in time, or whether it is a fad name that had one brief surge in popularity before trends moved on.

Thing is there's dating and dating. I wouldn't particularly like to be a mid 30s Kylie, but I am a mid 30s Sarah and it's totally fine.

That's because Sarah has always been fairly popular, whereas Kylie, Sharon, Stacey, Tracey etc became fashionable quickly and then fell out of fashion as people got bored of it.

Most names become old. In my friendship group the parents who tried the hardest to have a unique name that still sounded trendy and normal mostly found that their choice ended up in the top ten of that year . You might as well choose what you like. One person was quite vocal about hating any name in the top 100. That was for the stupid masses (not my words). They named their child Elsa because it was sooooo unique. Two months later the Frozen disney movie came out.

Look at all the Kylies from the 1980's. Says it all really.

I was just going to say the same thing. I know a Kylie. Before I met her, I assumed she was born in the second half of the 80s, and I was right. There’s nothing wrong with the name, but it is very much linked to that time period.

You do get surprises - In the last few years I’ve met a 20-something Margaret and a 50-year-old Jessica. But the fact that these were surprises suggests that these names have also become linked to particular time periods.

I don't personally find it offensive when someone suggests that a name might date to me that's just an observation rather than being hurtful or insensitive.
I think there are definitely names that are tied to a certain year or few years and then there are the popular/common/classic names that always seem to be around.
If people are asking for advice be respectful but honest I say 😊

I agree these boards are a great way to find out what people really think. I think mainly to find out if you are about to accidentally name your child something offensive or ridiculous or to see if you care enough about people opinions to be put off. After all they are just the opinions of random people on the internet.

I used Hannah and Emma as examples as so many of my peers have these names and are now having their own children.

To a lot of my peer group it would seem dated to use the names popular when they were born as their children would share their names with their mother's generation. No one I know has used names popular in the 80s/90s.

I appreciate some will rise and fall more sharply, but even the ones that linger are especially tied to a certain points in time when they were at their peak in popularity.

Naming is very subjective, so one person's timeliness classic is another's persons dated and dull.

@Chicchicchicchiclana you're missing the point that people are actually posting ASKING for opinions. Few people would just impose their unasked-for opinion on a new parent in real life.

With baby names I honestly think it's best to say nothing if you can't say anything nice. It isn't imperative that you voice your opinion that a name will date.

Surely the point of this board is to get people to express their honest opinions. Better people tell you Candida is a yeast infection or Rueben is misspelt or Jaxson is downmarket or Tracey is definitely not due a comeback on here when you have a chance to reconsider, than you go ahead with it and everybody in real life politely says "that's nice" whilst privately thinking "wtf".

Yes, I don't think Emma or Hannah are dated. Bit bland. But not tied to any particular decade.

Something like "Kelly" would be my example of a name that screams "80s."

In my generation, Elizabeth and Victoria were the names people used to be timeless, but you don't get a lot of Victorias these days.

I'd still say these were both timeless.

You don't see so many these days because people use a wider range of names.

Names like Emma and Hannah were very on trend in the 80s and now sounds dated.

These aren't good examples.

Names like Hayley and Nicola were very on trend in the 80s and now they sound dated.

Names like Emma and Hannah (I'd add Katherine and Sarah to this list) were particularly popular in the 80s but they have also enjoyed a certain degree of popularity at just about every point in history going back hundreds of years.

I did my family tree a couple of years ago and there were Emmas and Hannahs and Katherines and Sarahs in every generation of it going back to the 18th century. If you called a baby Emma or Hannah or Katherine or Sarah today it would be a lot more unusual than it was in the 1980s, but I think it would be seen as refreshing rather than dated.

If you called a baby Hayley or Nicola now it would sound like an 80s name, because the 80s is probably the only time you would see one of those in your family tree.

I don't think it's offensive to say a name will date as that is what happens. Names go in and out of fashion in cycles/trends. It is just staring the obvious that a name will date as all names do to a certain degree.

Names like Emma and Hannah were very on trend in the 80s and now sounds dated. Right now it's all the granny chic names are on trend again just like they were 100 years ago. In 30 years when Olivia and Theo start naming their children their names will sound dated.

What I do dislike is people calling names 'chavvy' I can't stand that term because it's prejudiced and needs to disappear imo. There is a fair amount of snobbery on Mumsnet from people who all seem to want their children to be lawyers and apparently there are only a certain names people can have in the profession. That view to me sounds very small minded and in my experience often comes from people with limited experience of the world.

Honestly people over think. Of course names date people. I do a lot of family history as a hobby.
Typically starting from 1850s, girls names are e.g.
Harriet
Hannah
Ada
Elsie
Marjorie
Valerie/Eileen/Joyce
Susan
Lisa/Sarah
Emily/Florence/Hannah

I could have a decent guess at the decade a woman was born last century as could many. More tricky with chaps as they tend to be john/james/George/William until the 1950s.
Call your kid River, Forest or Stream by all means but in years to come some one will be out there going "typical name of the early 2020s"

Thing is there's dating and dating. I wouldn't particularly like to be a mid 30s Kylie, but I am a mid 30s Sarah and it's totally fine.

So personally I don't see why a name "dating" is always seen as a bad thing. It just means that it was popular at one period of time. So long as the name is actually nice and not just fashionable, what's the problem? 🤷

Look at all the Kylies from the 1980's. Says it all really.

I don't think it's any more offensive saying a 'name will date' as it is to call a name ugly or boring. And I don't think people get more offended by the former.

Yes, very fashionable names do date! The rise quickly and fall out fashion quickly.

In a real-life social situation, sure.

But the whole point of having the Baby Names forum is so that we can hear actual opinions about names, not just a vague polite "How lovely!" etc.

I think it's a relevant comment to make, particularly since people often WANT a name that won't be faddy but it can be quite hard to work out which names are likely to date. Hence people choosing Theo or Everley because they think it's unusual, and then getting a shock at playgroup when they discover three other kids with the same name.

With baby names I honestly think it's best to say nothing if you can't say anything nice. It isn't imperative that you voice your opinion that a name will date.

All names date, unless you go for very archaic ones that hardly anyone has ever heard of, say, I dunno, Shadrach or something.

Even names that people use to avoid going out of date go out of date. In my generation, Elizabeth and Victoria were the names people used to be timeless, but you don't get a lot of Victorias these days.