How would you pronounce Dahlia?

Almost like an o sound

”I have a feeling flowery is having a go at me here as I asked about the 'r'.”

Nope. Not “having a go” at anyone in particular at all.

This, though: ”Yep, I'm totally baffled that there can be rhotic-speakers who aren't aware of non-rhotic pronunciation, and vice versa. How can anyone live in the British Isles and not be aware of it? I mean ok, maybe you might not have given it any conscious thought, but when the 'r' issue comes up, surely you just imagine the word as pronounced by a Scottish or RP English person and all becomes clear?”

Absolutely.

Might be some people who genuinely haven’t noticed the difference, but honestly pretty few and far between unless they never put their telly on or venture outside their own region.

Sorry, weird paragraphs there. I'm on my rubbish phone!

Ah but rhotic British accents tend to only have one sound for ha and hah. So in SE English accents, hah is a bit like the start of hard. Almost like an o sound, close to the start of the word hold. So Dahlia (unless pronounced day lee a) becomes almost doll-ee-a and hah is a bit like haw. Whereas ha in this accent is ha like hahaha.

In rhotic accents, like for example Edinburgh or Belfast accents, hah, dah etc are always ha and da. The a sound is always an. a, like apple. So Dahlia, (unless pronounced day lee a), becomes da-lee-a or maybe daa-lee-a. In Bristol ha is always a like apple, but sometimes elongated, like haaaappy. It's still an a sound though, rather than the SE English almost o sound. So I think it would be Daa-lee-a in Bristol too.

Phonetics course definitely needed!

Yes @Fullmoons, it has the same vowel sound as happy in my southeastern English/Essex accent. Ha could be long though, just to confuse things...

Maybe a phonetics course should be mandatory before joining Mumsnet to avoid these sorts of situations

This is why we need phonetics 😂.

fəˈnetɪk

*Is there any other way to pronounce Dah other than Dah?

Yes, it could rhyme with hah, which has a short vowel sound in my accent.*

Really? I'd have thought dah, hah or bah are always long.

What I don't get is why, if you don't even pronounce it, you'd add it into the phonetic spelling

The R modifies the previous vowel sound by making it longer. You don't pronounce the "ruh" sound at the end, but the vowel sound itself changes when an R is there. Just like adding an E to the word man makes it mane - you don't pronounce the E but it changes the preceding vowel sound. No becomes nor. Co becomes cor. Adding an R to Da makes it a decidedly long-sounding vowel, whereas Da is a bit more ambiguous (could be long like darling, could be short like dad).

Is there any other way to pronounce Dah other than Dah?

Yes, it could rhyme with hah, which has a short vowel sound in my accent.

Basically, adding an H is a little confusing if you're a non-rhotic speaker, as there could be multiple pronunciations (Ha and Hah could both be long or short, Har is definitely long). Ironically, Adding an R makes the pronunciation less ambiguous (if you're someone with a non-rhotic accent )

As for Dahlia, I'd pronounce it Daylia. Because that's how it's said here because the English language is a pain in the arse.

I’d assume it was pronounced like the flower which is spelt the same way as the name (ie: Day-lee-ah)

If the name was to be pronounced “dar-lee-ah” I’d recommend it be spelled Darlia, to avoid confusion.

And of course it could be be pronounced Day, because that’s how the OED will tell you to pronounce it in this word.

Like the flower basically

No, more like Dah/lee-a

Dah/lee/a

Could be a short a as in cat fullmoons.

I also don't understand why you'd add an R to explain how to pronounce Dahlia.

Is there any other way to pronounce Dah other than Dah?!

Fatkins, as I said in my post, I am equally baffled by non-rhotic speakers being unaware of the rhotic pronunciation.*

But you weren't just baffled by rhotic speakers not getting this immediately. You said they must be pretending not to get it, just to be a pita! Or am I confusing you with someone else? Apologies if so.

Thanks Random, makes sense when you explain it.

You might just as well ask why many of the rhotic speakers on hthe thread have added an 'h to make it 'ah'.

I'll answer this one - it's because 'ah' describes a longer sound than 'a'. Also there's really only one way to pronounce it, while there are two very different ways to pronounce 'ar' depending on your accent.

When it’s a name I pronounce it dar lee ah but I call the flower a day lee ah

I love the word rhotic - never heard of it until this thread. Didn't even know there was a word for people who don't pronounce their Rs.

Day-lee-uh

Fatkins, as I said in my post, I am equally baffled by non-rhotic speakers being unaware of the rhotic pronunciation.

Sakura - it's not a question of non-rhotic speakers 'adding an r we don't even pronounce' to phonetically convey that sound. It's that if you're a non-rhotic speaker trying to write that sound, it makes just as much sense to write it as 'ar' as it does to write it as 'ah', as Random says. You might just as well ask why many of the rhotic speakers on hthe thread have added an 'h to make it 'ah'.

Dar Lee ar

Day lee a

Day Lee ah

I get the confusion Sakura. The reason is that if I (for example) try to think of a word with a long “ah” sound all the examples that leap to mind end with r: car, bar, far, star. Apart from Bah as in Humbug nothing else comes to mind.