Too try hard.

Names that signal how different/intellectual/alternative etc. you are

Well, yes, this is what we're discussing. HOW exactly do you think a name signals someone is intellectual? And in order to not 'signal you're different' you'd have to use a top 20 name, regardless of what names those are for the year. Ironically most names are not top 20 names, so does that make them less different?!

The lack of logic in this thinking astounds me!

Try hard’ gets used on here by Little Englanders who suffer from both xenophobia and tall poppy syndrome and think everyone should call their children George and Sophie. Anything else is Getting Above Yourself, and Having Notions.

I think this sums it up perfectly!

In fact, one of his school's teachers has a deeply English but non-phonetic surname Bethune, pronounced Beecham which seems to cause more comment than any foreign names.

Perhaps because it's not pronounced Beecham? Bethune is a Norman name that travelled to England via Scotland and is pronounced Beaton. If the teacher is pronouncing it Beecham that really is "try hard"!

Meh, the Brits are the only culture who attach class aspirations to names.
Jayden, Hayden, Cayden, Lily-Mae = chav names
George, Olivia, Jack, Sophie = "normal" names / safe zone
Tarquin, Harriet, Rupert, Ptolemy = "posh" names
Bodhi, Reef, River, Raine, Asher = "try hard" names
Madison, Carter, Parker, Britney = "too American"

Name your child whatever you like and stop asking people's opinions - especially people on the damn internet. DS2 has a very popular Irish surname for firstname (not Riley) and I'm not Irish. Neither is DH, he's Scottish.

But both our boys have surnames for first names and on MN I always got a lot of "I hate surnames for first names, it's so American" until I mention DH is Scottish and very normal to use surnames for firstnames, and only then does it become acceptable.

If DS2 had been a girl, I wanted to name him Saoirse. Again, I'm not Irish. Try hard? Or nobody else's fucking business...?

But I wonder whether there is actually an element of jealousy that such people are so confident in themselves that they're willing to use a very "different" name?

I've wondered that too. Maybe parents of a child with a very common/popular name wish they themselves had chosen a more interesting name?

But any name says more about the parents than the child — the child being named is (usually) a newborn with no characteristics other than smallness and crying.* It has no input into its name, contrary to all those parents who say ‘Oh, the moment I saw him, I knew he wasn’t a Rupert but an Augustus!’

Calling your child George or Olivia says just as much about the parents as calling it Boaz or Rebel.

(*Obviously leaving out cultures where people name themselves once they officially become adults.)

I think "try hard" names are those that appear to say more about the parents than they do the children. Names that signal how different/intellectual/alternative etc. you are. But I wonder whether there is actually an element of jealousy that such people are so confident in themselves that they're willing to use a very "different" name?

'Try hard' is shorthand for 'I think you've got tickets on yourself but I can't quite articulate why so I'll put you in your place with this zinger' There's something particularly...grey and unimaginative about a sullen 'try hard'. We should all be trying hard to find good names!

To be honest when I see some of the names people on MN are considering for their child, names like Ethel or Cecil, I think 'TRY HARDER PLEASE'.

Yes it is try hard to use a name from a different language that you have no connection to. It’s the very definition of try hard

I have always loved the name Niamh. Ever since I was a little girl I knew I would use it if I had a daughter. Was I a "try hard" seven year old? Or, just maybe, is it simply a name that I like the sound of and like the way it looks written down? We don't all have a compulsion to impress other people. Some of us choose names because we like them and they aren't so ridiculous as to condemn our child to a lifetime of mockery.

Also, even if Niamh (because it's always the example that people like you give) is considered "pedestrian" in Ireland (which it won't be universally, because everyone has their own tastes) then it doesn't really matter because I'm not in Ireland and it doesn't sound that way to my ear.

But associations are fine. People might associate Felix with a cat, Caspar with a ghost or Quentin with Tarantino. But that has nothing do with 'trying too hard' imo?

Associations not associates

I agree, op. Most posters' 'definitions' of 'try hard' give me the impression of their own narrow mindedness.

Personally I love meeting people with interesting or unusual names!

People post on this board because they want to know the connotations and associates others might have with a name. They want the opinions which would be "bloody rude" to point out once someone has already named a child!

People who get offended and try to goad others into being very blunt are being deliberatelydeliberately disingenuous in order to enjoy a bit of righteous indignation and finger pointing.

As I said above we can pretend names don't bring with them baggage in the form of associations - some with famous people or fictional characters or songs, some with pets, some just word association or unfortunate rhymes or puns, some with people we knew at school and yes, some stereotypes of class and probably other stereotypes (old fashioned, naughty, fussy, adventurous, try hard, hipster, old hippie, whatever).

Mentioning the stereotype might offend someone, but it's best to avoid this board in that case. It's rubbish on a societal level that stereotypes exist, but they do, and some people want to know what others will groundlessly assume or picture when if they choose a certain name.

Sometimes every 'normal' name (particularly boys' names) has connotations you don't really like due to your brain's habit of linking words together or associations with loads of people you've met.
Give me nearly any boy's name and I could tell you why I don't like it enough!

So you need to find one with no connotations whatsoever that doesn't sound pretentious or too common!

Lee, all im saying is dont be so bloody rude about it, making a corrolation between a childs name and their social status is rude, no matter who youre saying it to

Well, for a start I did not make that statement, and quite a few posters have queried the poster who did as to why someone on a Croydon council estate should be prevented from calling their child Augustus or Rupert, if that's what they like.

I think people should call their children what they like, and get a bit bored with the 'Keep Your Head Down, Nice Safe Name Like Jack and Sophie, Otherwise People Will Think You Are Pretentious' brigade.

But and I say this as a foreigner from somewhere with a less pronounced class system the UK is an incredibly class-conscious society, so yes, names have connotations with certain social statuses, just as much as what you call the room you sit and relax in, or the name you give your evening meal.

Names that are too 'try hard', for me might include names that are trying to be very fashionable / modern, overly complicated, or pretentious

What does that actually mean?

Fashionable names are by definition top 10 names!

What's the problem with 'modern' names?

What's an example of an 'overly complicated' name? A foreign one?

What exactly does 'pretentious' mean? Pretending to be what?

I honestly don't get these issues implying that parents are 'trying too hard'

But Mum you're entirely missing the point of the names board.

If I ask someone in real life if thry like the name Xavier, they're either going to be polite or piss me off. So instead you ask randomers on the Internet who can be brutally honest without causing offence because they're only answering what you asked.

If you're going to ask "is Poseidon cool for a girl" and get offended if people say no, don't ask

Names that are too 'try hard', for me might include names that are trying to be very fashionable / modern, overly complicated, or pretentious. Sometimes it just seems OTT or out of place.

Nesssie its pronounced 'neeve'. Thank you Sparkly, i agree with you!
Lee, all im saying is dont be so bloody rude about it, making a corrolation between a childs name and their social status is rude, no matter who youre saying it to

Niamh isn’t hard to pronounce even if you’re reading using English phonetics. You’re still going to get pretty close. How do you pronounce it? I read it as 'Neem' or 'Niam' which I know isn't right.

Sorry, some adults on here!

Yes, it's rude to criticise someone's name in their face.

But it's narrow minded to make fun of peoples' names just because they're a different style than what they would choose.

Why shouldn't council house families call their kids Rupert? Why shouldn't non Irish families call their daughter Niamh? And why should JRM not call his son Sixtus rather than say Steve or Sam?

I'm all for name diversity! Makes life much more interesting. Also, kids are much more accepting of different names than some Aston here!

Then, mum, if you're new to the baby names forum, why not think about why it exists? No one is insulting your little Rupert or Augustus to their faces. That would be rude. The point of the forum is to get uncensored opinions from anonymous internet strangers, rather than family and friends who may be too polite to be frank -- and that involves giving specific names.