Middle name for Casper (Girl)

I dislike Casper but actually like Casper Rose weirdly enough

Thank you, Flora. I was struggling to find a way of saying exactly that, and failing!

As an ancient feminist, what strikes me as really rather sad regarding a lot of the comments here is this. We early feminists fought NOT for the right for girls to have boys' names, but for FEMALE names - as frilly as you like - to be given equal respect with boys' names. Lili-Mae or Evangeline-Aimee should be treated just like men called Edward or William.

It really SHOULD NOT MATTER what anyone is called. But disregarding female names in favour of boys' names surely cannot be the best way forward. That's why I'm unhappy when millenia of traditional names - our collective history, in the same way as bricks and mortar or music or literature - are ignored. To my mind, it would be much better if we continued the struggle to have female names respected for what they are - belonging to women who can - and do - make equally important contributions to society as men.

Teachergirl2011 and saying a name is 'hideous' ISN'T being cruel?

Casper is a boys name it's hideous. Don't be so cruel!

BertrandRussell DS1's name is equally used for girls and boys and although DS2's unusual name is used by both, in fact all the other people we have so far met or heard of with his name are female.

@quietmoon I agree!! Some people on here I think would argue about the world with a plant pot! Tell ur sis to go for it x

“FWIW both my children have gender neutral names which we chose not because of that, but just because we liked them.”

I bet they don’t. I bet they have boy’s names!

It grows on you, doesn't it?

there are 70 billion Thomas' out there - nobody cares that it's associated with Thomas the tank Engine. Or Sams and Fireman Sam etc etc

It doesn't matter that Reece's actual name in Laura - she is known professionally as Reece and is enormously successful.

As to the reason there are no male Emilys - you only need to look at Lily Madigan to know why. People in general - male or female - want to sound less feminine, girly, weak and all the other attached stereotypes - unless they are actively trying to look like that for whatever odd reason. the pendulum only needs to swing one way imo - away from women = girly, feminine, subservient, nice, mild etc.

This. And that giving a girl a boy’s name is somehow edgy and “strong”As if girl’s names are not good enough. I don’t think for a minute that this trend is the first step to gender neutrality. I think it reinforces the view that boy’s stuff is “better

Words have a poetic quantity. "Emily" will never be more butch than "Jake".

Surely the whole point is that a name is just an artificially constructed collection of letters and sounds and doesn't intrinsically have or denote a gender? If you like it, why not use it? Just like if see a nice blue jumper I'll wear it?

FWIW both my children have gender neutral names which we chose not because of that, but just because we liked them.

What a pity for your DN that her DF wasn't born in Aliceville or Charlottesville or Virginia Beach

I don’t think for a minute that this trend is the first step to gender neutrality. I think it reinforces the view that boy’s stuff is “better”.

If "boy's stuff" (stereotypes surrounding maleness) wasn't better we wouldn't need feminism!! Christ, of course it's better! It's better to be strong and competent than weak and hysterical. It's better to be where you are because of what you can do than because of how pretty you are. Those are the stereotypes - they are how women are disadvantaged. If the stereotypes were equally good women wouldn't be the underdogs!

Now look, I don't think masculine things are actually better, but they are definitely more valued within our society. Women were pegged as having and being the less desirable things, and society made it desirable to have and be things that men had/were. And thus came the patricarchy. Masculinity is desirable in our society, and femininity less so. It is a GOOD THING to show that women can embody those valuable, "masculine" traits, and it would also be a VERY GOOD THING to push society to recognise and appreciate "femininity", whether it is expressed by women or by men.

But hey, like I say, let's keep those men masculine and those women feminine, all in the name of feminism. And let's police that rigid gender binary with mockery of anyone who bucks it, particularly if they're bucking it the "wrong" way. This is very familiar Mumsnet "feminism".

In the same way that gender neutral always means boy’s stuff that girls are allowed to use.

I don’t think for a minute that this trend is the first step to gender neutrality. I think it reinforces the view that boy’s stuff is “better”.

Yep.

“I am bothered by the amazing persistence of the misogynistic view that women and girls are second-class citizens.”

This. And that giving a girl a boy’s name is somehow edgy and “strong”As if girl’s names are not good enough. I don’t think for a minute that this trend is the first step to gender neutrality. I think it reinforces the view that boy’s stuff is “better”.

I have a six month old baby (boy) called Caspar (not CaspER) and we always get a great reaction to it. FWIW I think Casper Rose is nice for a girl

Jack is my son Casper's middle name

Bertrand's point is a perfectly sensible one. She's not saying that this is how it should be. She is saying that nobody, but nobody, calls a little boy Emily or Amelia or Iris, because they are clearly female names. Meanwhile a tiny handful of people do call their girls James or Billie or Cameron.

You are taking the optimistic view that the latter group are in the vanguard and soon, very soon, there will be another tiny band calling their boys by girls' names.

I'm not so sanguine about this. I don't see it happening any time soon. It's seen as demeaning for boys to have a girly name, just as it is for boys to play with girls' toys or to wear pink sparkly clothes. We are nowhere near getting rid of these toxic stereotypes. If anything in some ways it's worse than it was 25 years ago when my children were babies.

I'm not bothered whether names ever become unisex. I am bothered by the amazing persistence of the misogynistic view that women and girls are second-class citizens.

What happens when all boys names are used by girls for being strong and edgy and there are no non femininised names left?

I suppose people will make up new ones like Snarl, Glint, Pow.

@RatRolyPoly

Better we all just stick to "boys'" names for boys and "girls'" names for girls then Bertrand, just like it's supposed to be. Girls get to sound pretty and evocative - as historically girls names have been - and boys can continue to be associated with pragmatism and strength. Yep, better keep those two categories very clearly defined; yay feminism!

Our baby girl will have a 'boys' name too. Nothing too pretentious but something a bit more tomboy-ish.

Casper Rose is sweet, as is the reasoning.