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Baby names

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Donte / Dontae for a white british boy?!

82 replies

emmagreen481 · 02/11/2018 17:16

I'm 23 weeks pregnant with a boy and I am really struggling with finding a name. I've looked at almost every possible name on this planet and I don't like any of them. The only one I've considered is Donte / Dontae pronounced don-tay however everyone I've spoke to about it has told me it's a black man's name, is this true?! and does it even matter?
Before anyone mentions it, I have thought about the name Dante instead and I don't like it

OP posts:
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Rachelover40 · 15/11/2018 10:45

Never heard the name before. The only one I've ever heard like it is 'Dante' as in 'Dante's Inferno'. Do you really want to name your child after him?

SauvingnonBlanketyBlanc · 15/11/2018 10:43

I would think of dontay wilder the boxer

Aquilla · 15/11/2018 10:01

Please spell it Dante though.

BakedBeans47 · 15/11/2018 09:49

I actually quite like it and I also quite like Deontay as well (as in Deontay Wilder) but not sure I’d use them.

SleepingStandingUp · 15/11/2018 09:08

Are you trying to get the shit kicked out of him in school?
Do you think there's a strong sense of cultural appropriation over a name in school penis?

You and many others are making the mistake that there are rigid demarcations in the US, with white babies on one side and black babies on the other no I'm not. I'm not the one stating that you need to Google the number of black children with a name before you can decide as a white parent if it's suitable for you to use.
Fair point on English names but I was making a point. Although Daniel, Christopher, Michael, David, James, Joseph, and Matthew were among the most common names for African-American boys in 2013 from your link. At what point do the scales tip and you decide a name is no longer usable by the origin country? At what point in history would you have said yo, white Europeans, David is no longer for you, it's actually offensive if you use your Dad Dave' name for your son because this culture now owns it. Which is basically what you're saying. I don't think you can culturally appropriate something that's a COMPARATIVELY new adoption or is at least as old as the adoption in the oposers culture. and which still has clear links to a different culture.

You can't ban one group from using something they used to use because someone else has decided thry want to use it now. The point about no delineation between black and white babies is exactly the point. There is nothing in that and many names that can tell you about the actual ethnic origin / cultural heritage of the child which is fine surely? Unless it is something specifically associated so Mohammed, Kwame etc.

mathanxiety · 15/11/2018 08:11

I didn't mean it was an issue the other way round, I mean if a trad white English name say Elizabeth is used for every third baby born to African or African American parents at what point do you decide white English parents are culturally appropriating a name that is now highly associated with African/African American people? The point is with names like Dante there isn't a clear African providence to stop someone else using it, and as cultural Appropriation doesn't work within Western Europe thry don't need to prove Italian heritage.

You and many others are making the mistake that there are rigid demarcations in the US, with white babies on one side and black babies on the other, and never the twain shall meet. Names are becoming more varied across all communities in the US - breaking out of the Elizabeth and John mould. This is a trend more visible in poorer sections of society everywhere, and that is a complicating factor in name spread.

How much a name needs to be used in the African American community in order for it to become associated with that community would depend on whether the name really was popular among white people and whether it remained so. Dante, though Italian, really isn't popular in Italy or anywhere else in Europe, but it is popular in the African American community. Meanwhile, 'mainstream' names continue to hold their own across all communities. There are lots of Brittanys and Brandons everywhere.

There are very few popular names among African Americans that have African provenance. Most typically 'African American names' are composed of elements of French, Italian, other European, and Muslim names and syllables associated with southern Europe and the Muslim world. Trad 'white English' names are not likely candidates for popular use among African Americans. It is more likely to be Italian/French/Muslim sounding names that are used.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_names

penisbeakers · 15/11/2018 03:37

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Birdie6 · 15/11/2018 03:26

Yes, go for something else. Everyone will call him Dan , so if you don't like that, go with something else.

NKFell · 15/11/2018 03:02

To me I wouldn't assume 'Dante' is black, or white. 'Donte' I would probably assume black but wouldn't have a problem.

I'm with SleepingStandingUp on this one. I don't think it's wise to consider how Americans might feel about it (which sounds much ruder than I intend btw!) just because they have such immense and intense issues with race. I think once an African American realised 'Dante' (the person) was British they wouldn't be bothered.

Tartanwallpaper · 14/11/2018 10:13

I like it and why would it matter if a lot of African American boys have the name, presumably their mothers also chose the name because they like the sound of it. I don't like it spelled Dontae though because I misread it and thought it said Donate

glitterfarts · 14/11/2018 10:08

Marco, Leon, Luca, Matteo, Leonardo, Diego, GIovanni, Nicholas/Nicolo?

I like Dante and know a little boy (white) with the name.
Don't like the other spellings.

dogwoofbark · 14/11/2018 09:53

Ahhhh when white people tell black people what they should be offended by. Grin😂

I have a very black name. It was used in a book about slavery.

I'm very white. I'm have many black friends. Nobody has ever been in the slightest bit offended. That's what I miss about Britain. America and race is just ridiculous.

SleepingStandingUp · 14/11/2018 09:43

I didn't mean it was an issue the other way round, I mean if a trad white English name say Elizabeth is used for every third baby born to African or African American parents at what point do you decide white English parents are culturally appropriating a name that is now highly associated with African/African American people? The point is with names like Dante there isn't a clear African providence to stop someone else using it, and as cultural Appropriation doesn't work within Western Europe thry don't need to prove Italian heritage.
Naming him Adebowale would be a different argument.

That website is soooo addictive. Mine and my sons name are both big in Australia which is randomly cool

mathanxiety · 13/11/2018 21:40

I don't think anyone is going to be taken to court over the name, or asked to prove the existence of a long line of forbears. I do think the possibility of cultural appropriation should be taken into account though.

The 'popularity outside the US' graph in the link indicates that Sweden is the only other place where it has been used enough, and only in the last few years at that, to generate a statistic. So while the name may surface in Europe and South America, it's mainly an African American thing at this point.

Wrt names like Catherine, Elizabeth, etc - what is at play in cultural appropriation from the African American pov is taking names that have a long standing in an oppressed community that experienced a movement a few decades ago towards embracing its 'otherness', celebrating what made it different from the mainstream that had excluded it for so long. Hence Afros and other natural hair styles, headwrap wearing, claiming of other cultural markers, and names that have diverged significantly from mainstream Anglo- American norms.

It's not a factor the other way round, when Anglo names are the default, the mainstream culture.

SleepingStandingUp · 13/11/2018 08:57

I asked if you'd got one cos I couldn't find anything with actual p) figures other than a rough guide in popularity. Given its Latin origins it couldn't just be Italy either.

There's a lot more people in America than Italy so comparisons are hard. Dante would have a linger standing in Italy than America.

If tomorrow every African American girl born was named Charlotte, Elizabeth or Katherine at what point would you say thry can no longer be used for white European children??

I think it's different where a name has a SOLID cultural ORIGIN but you can't just decide midlife of a name it's no longer permissable.
What about older Dante's? Should they provide evidence that it was more popular in their culture when they were named? What about a line of Dante's named after forefathers? Or an era when the popularity was contestable but Internet usage and name compiling and thinking to check "how many African Americans are named X" before choosing a name?

I would also question whether those that told OP she can't were worried about cultural Appropriation and her son's future life in America or were just bloody racist. I certainly had a few comments about "choosing a black kids name" from people who wouldn't know CA if it came up and slapped them. And no, I picked an Italian one Inn the end by preference of name

LasMeninas · 13/11/2018 08:55

I'm not sure I agree with that. I don't really see any issue with using the name Dante for a white kid in the UK. We are much closer to Europe than the US and I generally meetmuch Italians, Spanish, French and Portuguese than Americans.

mathanxiety · 13/11/2018 06:58

www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Dante

The closest I can manage is this link ^^ which may shed a little light.
(There are many variant names too).

Names are not divided up according to declared race for official statistical purposes in the US afaik so actual numbers are hard to come by.

In an anglophone region (such as the UK or the US) I don't think popularity of names of babies in non-English speaking regions is relevant. The cultural references will be stronger within the Anglophone region.

The link shows the popularity of the name is greatest in the US.

SleepingStandingUp · 12/11/2018 21:12

Math have you got the statistics on that? % of African American children named Dante or derivatives compared to White European over say the last 50 years?

ToddlerTamerMumma · 12/11/2018 18:50

If you like it then it doesn't mAtter if its a name that's more likely to be for black child (if there are such names!). I'd say it's unusual where I live, but most kids where I live have traditional names though

mathanxiety · 12/11/2018 18:43

You're free to use it of course. But I think taking cultural sensitivities of the group that has overwhelmingly claimed it is more polite.

SleepingStandingUp · 12/11/2018 10:57

Which might be fine if you're saying Hi I'm White a British for as many generations as I can count, what do you think of Abimbola for a girl? Which has definite African origins. But if we're talking about a name with Latin / Italian roots (Dante / Dontae) which has been adopted by another culture how do you decide that original culture can no longer use it?

mathanxiety · 11/11/2018 19:50

No, not African American or speaking on behalf of anyone African American. But I have conversed with many African American friends and one friend who has native American heritage and what I have posted here is what I have learned from those conversations. My friends tend to be MC and all had given a good deal of thought to the names they chose for their children.

I see it as respectful, not discriminatory, to steer clear of some names. To me it's a question of balance of power.

www.babynamewizard.com/forum/cultural-appropriation-of-names
A discussion here^^.

This post in many ways sums up my point:
When an individual or culture is oppressed, one of the most basic ways of resisting oppression is through naming. There might be "secret" personal names that aren't used in front of oppressors or that don't make sense to the more powerful culture... on the flip-side, children might be given names from the oppressing culture, to help that child blend in better and to take some of the power for that child.

When individuals from the more powerful group "borrow" names from the less powerful group, therefore, it can be felt as yet another example of the more powerful blithely stepping on the culture and autonomy of the less powerful. The greater and more long-standing the power imbalance, and the more important to or representative of the culture the particular name is, the stronger the negative feelings about this practice are likely to be.

In the other direction, parents from the more marginalized group "borrowing" names from the dominant group might be seen by members of the dominant group to be (rightly) trying to assimilate or to be (unjustifiably) "aping their betters", according to the particulars of the group dynamics and the dominant individual in question. It might also pass entirely unnoticed, since the dominant names are normalized where traditional names of the oppressed group would be seen as deviant...

roundtable · 11/11/2018 11:06

One of my dc names is Jewish - they're an oppressed group.

Regardless, I still don't think using a name that you've decided is too African American is cultural appropriation. You may have had a slight point if op was American or said in her op that she planning on moving there but she hasn't. Names have diversified and I think that's a positive thing. Maybe one day we'll get to the point where we don't discriminate or make assumptions about people based on their name. I'm not holding my breath though.

Are you African American out of interest or are you speaking on behalf of them?

Anyway, I'm sure now the op has decided against it due to some posters strong opinions it's probably not on to keep dragging this out.

Probably best to agree to disagree.

mathanxiety · 10/11/2018 20:41

Roundtable, the cultural appropriation bit seems only to be an issue when elements of the culture of the oppressed group are used by those outside of that group.

Hence controversies about ethnic or ethnic-inspired clothing, university mascots that are stereotypes of, for instance, native Americans, corn row hairstyles and much more in the US.

It isn't an issue the other way round. The (private, RC) University of Notre Dame (aka 'The Fighting Irish') have a belligerent leprechaun figure as their mascot and it doesn't raise an eyebrow. The University of Illinois otoh had to retire 'Chief Illiniwek'. www.nytimes.com/2018/02/01/us/native-americans-sports-mascots-illinois.html

A child born in the UK won't necessarily spend his or her whole life there, or work for UK companies even if staying put.

SleepingStandingUp · 10/11/2018 13:41

roundtable I dint think thonk you can do it back? Which is where it gets confusing. How much does a name / anything need to be used by culture1 which originated in culture2 for culture2 to not be able to use it any more if only culture2 can culturally appropriate?