Do names still have a class association?

Thought I'd chip in as DS has a name that has been mentioned many times in this thread.

I had no idea of the class association with his name until I read a thread on MN about how pretentious it sounded.

Even Rupert Graves can't rescue Rupert it and he's lovely

judas
If I was to be make generalisations, I've taught 2 schools in the same town.

Some names would be common across both schools (Ben, Elliot, Harry, Tom, James, Joshua, Sam, Emma, Olivia, Charlotte).
Some were very much divided along catchment. School A had a lot of girl names with cs turned to ks (Chloe to Khloe) or lots of silent/double letters added (Nicole to Nikhole or Darcy to Darcii) or lots of double barrel girl names (e.g. Kaitlyn-mai, Ella-rose, Mia-Jade, Amber-marie).
School B tended to get quite a few of what I joke are MN approved names e.g. Noah, Oscar, Evelyn, Tabitha, Eleanor

Now I've thought about it, there seems to be more general/class neutral boy names and girl names seem to have more marked associations.

Now I can find little Ruparts everywhere and certainly no posh stereotype attached

I can assure you with almost 100% certainty that there are no boys names Rupert living in my rather WC area. They'd be bullied mercilessly at the nearby school, sadly.

It isn't how it should be, but names certainly do indicate class in the UK. We're a society obsessed with class still, with lower social mobility than there has been for decades if not longer.

I don’t remember many boys named Farquhar or Sixtus at my boggy state schools in deepest darkest Essex. On the other hand I was mildly interested to see one of the titled women campaigning for daughters to inherit hereditary titles (to enable them to enter the House of Lords) is Lady Tanya. She’s married to Jason. So, y’know.

Another interesting thing I’ve noticed is that double-barrelled surnames seem to be an indicator of ‘lower classness’

I think they are now because they were once perceived as posh and aspirational, so couples would keep both spouse’s surnames in order to double-barrel them.

Old posh double-barrelled names weren’t joined on marriage but generally by inheritance to acknowledge the heritage or stop family name dying out. (If there were no male heirs or the heir had a different surname)

Names do move classes, but the movement is in one direction.

Not true at all - upper middle class types often choose very ordinary, popular names or ones that seem a rebellion agains their background.

Sam, Tom, Jack or Alfie, Archie, Stanley. Maid’s names like Daisy, Flora, Poppy, Evie.

Whereas the children AND the father taking the mothers name is very middle class

Another interesting thing I’ve noticed is that double-barrelled surnames seem to be an indicator of ‘lower classness’.

My parents would say that double-barrelled surnames are posh, think Hugh Fernley-Whittinngstall. But for children, double barrelled surnames seem to be more common amongst deprives groups, perhaps because their parents are less likely to be married.

The term ‘posh’ is not a measure of class

Ultimately, the ‘class’ association of any name is the sole responsibility of those who bestow the name.

Social mobility of names IS a thing, and there is a change occurring. If I was deemed a ‘chav’ or working class, or middle class, the name I gave my child would be a reflection on me, but not necessarily my child.

And there are no solid rules for what name belongs to any ‘class’. It’s also determined by location, so a name in Surrey might be considered too awful for a middle-class suburbian child, but in Yorkshire might be considered terribly OTT or old-fashioned.

If I gave my child the name that others associated as being ‘inappropriate’ for my class, then I would be slated for it (on MN, or behind my back or whatever). But could honestly not stop someone’s progression up the class-system.

I work in university admissions and the kids in their late teens that come to open days with names like Phoebe, Hugo, Freya etc tend to be quite middle class whereas children born now with those names could be any class.

When I was choosing a name for my daughter I got the impression from mumsnet that surname names, American sounding names, miss spellings and hyphenated names are quite looked down upon.

My full name is Anne-Marie. So this makes me a lower class 'chav' because it has a hyphen?

I feel so loved today.

I wish I had a crushed velvet sofa in Dubai.

#dreams

Wouldn't it be a bit of a sweatfest though??

Names do move classes, but the movement is in one direction. Freaknomics calls it the trickle-down effect. That's why a name can have different class associations depending on the age of its bearer.

Names definitely move classes eg Sebastian, Quentin, Hugo, Florence were all seen as 'posh' a few years ago but are now quite commonplace.

I think the book Freakonomics explains how this happens.

I work in a private boarding school in the Home Counties and I've taught 2 Chantelles and a Paige. I've also taught creative spellings, hyphens and several 'mn condemned' names.

You are confusing money with class. They are totally different things.

Yes they do have associations.

We can debate whether they should until the cows come home (and even then some on MN will ride in on their high horse claiming they never have bias or judge ever and they'd rather be called sparkle-trixxii-flutterbye-delilah than a snob).

As a previous poater said, people who are aware of bias and preconceptions and association are better placed than those who claim ignorance.

There are names which are steretypically associated with certain classes for sure. And I suppose that means that there must be a certain amount of truth to it. But I think it can only be a general correlation between a name and a class, never a hard and fast rule.

Shout “Kayden! Chantelle! Paige!” in a playground in Hampstead and see how many kids respond

I work in a private boarding school in the Home Counties and I've taught 2 Chantelles and a Paige. I've also taught creative spellings, hyphens and several 'mn condemned' names.

Names are a funny thing.
George for example, is the name of Kate and Williams son, and an old name.
Where I work there are lots and lots of working class George’s, due to the ‘st George’s flag’ ‘our boys in afganistan’ Vibe, which puts me off.

Similarly, there are a few very working class Arabellas, which I believe to be due to people liking the name ‘Bella’ because of twilight and wanting a more unique name than Isabella.

I know more than two doctors with daughters called Ruby, which is slated on here.

‘Eva’ seems to be the name shouted harshly across playgrounds/supermarkets here, and it’s a old, international name.

🤷‍♀️

Both of my DDs’ names are on here! DD2’s name is originally German and she was named for my great aunt.

Names just seem to reflect parents aspirations

I grew up with Rupert, Quentin, Julian, and all were named because of their parents aspirations

Using a unique name will not undo bias. Telling people bias is bad will not undo bias. If you reckon you can undo human bias do tell scientists....we can all stop blinding trials! Would save sqillions.

Doesn’t mean that THIS generation needs to perpetuate that, though does it?

@Sessy19 yes of course they can (although now more go to university than not so that in itself doesn’t mean that much) but social mobility is no higher now than it was a generation ago. What your parents did and how much money they had impacts on your chances in life. This isn’t an opinion, it’s proven over and over again.