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Baby names

Find baby name inspiration and advice on the Mumsnet Baby Names forum.

Original poster

British name or foreign (Italian) name for dual-nationality child abroad?

89 replies

LeeMiller · 25/05/2018 09:34

Hi all, we're just starting to think about naming our first child. I'm British and DH is Italian, we live in Italy and are planning to stay here. Our baby will have an Italian surname. I would like a middle name (although it's not common here and should probably be short as child will legally have to include it in signature etc, so it will be used more than middle names usually are in the UK). We want a British element to be included in the name somewhere. My name poses problems here (loads of middle names so too long for forms, it's not spelled phonetically, lots of Hs etc) so we'd try to avoid those by choosing familiar/classic British names that are easy for Italians to pronounce.

We have a rough shortlist of names, both British and Italian, but we can't decide how to combine them. Our choices are:

a) British first name and Italian middle name

b) Italian first name and British middle name
c) 'International' first name pronounced the same(ish) in both countries and British middle name

DH prefers an Italian first name as it's easier for the child, whereas I have a common English name and would have loved something foreign and unusual growing up, so favour a British first name.

I'm curious, people bringing up kids outside your home country, what option did you choose and how has it worked out? If you grew up with an obviously foreign-sounding name, did/do you like it?

(Our current shortlist includes James, Joseph, Jude, Max, Cosimo, Amadeo, Leonardo and Lucy, Rose, Rosamund, Rosalind, Charlotte, Eleonora, Clara, Alida, Livia and Lucia - particularly if you're Italian, what's your perception of those names? )

Sorry that was so long!

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Original poster
LeeMiller · 25/05/2018 20:12

Tatiana, I like Cosima too but DH (who suggested Cosimo as a classic, elegant Tuscan name) said it evokes "an old southern woman with no teeth and a dirty apron"! Not exactly what Nigella had in mind, I imagine! I don't know if that's a regional or national connotation, but I know lots of Italian names favoured by Brits (including me) are the equivalent if Ethel or Doris for Italians. Grin

Willsurvive thanks for the advice, I've noticed that people announce names (and pregnancy news) super early! I adore Rosamund but I feared it might be a bit much, even for a middle name.

Fatniss that's hilarious, it's like all the Italians naming their sons Kevin (no. 50 in the rankings for 2016!)

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FartnissEverbeans · 25/05/2018 19:38

I went to school with a guy whose dad was Italian. His parents named him Alan. Wtf? All the gorgeous Italian names they could have picked and they chose Alan??

Personally I'd choose an awesome Italian name and would avoid anything boring but practical. I'm clearly in the minority!

willisurvive3under2 · 25/05/2018 18:50

Oh and I think most of your names are lovely - but Rosamund might get sniffed at, and the correct spelling is 'Amedeo'.

willisurvive3under2 · 25/05/2018 18:49

Italian in the UK with a British DH here. Have a boy and two girls and have chosen British/international first names and Italian middle names for all 3. Italian names are often tricky to pronounce here (my Mum kept suggesting Ludovico, ha). And the 'dual' ones like Beatrice or Laura pose pronunciation issues.

Whatever you choose, you MUST have a name sorted weeks in advance. Italians will look at you like you have 2 heads if you say you're waiting until after the birth to pick a name and I speak from bitter experience.

TatianaLarina · 25/05/2018 18:41

I like Cosimo so much I’d also go with Cosima for a girl.

Or Rafaela.

LoveInTokyo · 25/05/2018 18:33

OP I’m British living in France and I want my children to have names that are recognisably British rather than French, but which are easy for French people to pronounce.

Thetimehascometo · 25/05/2018 17:50

We are going for an Irish first name and a Polish middle name whilst living in England! We’ve decided the kid can have fun with spelling it out! Both are short names though and the Irish name is fairly well known :)

Original poster
LeeMiller · 25/05/2018 16:09

Yes, there does seem to be a lot of repetition, which is a shame when there are so many gorgeous Italian names (I've spotted some lovely unusual names on funeral notices, so they're not current!). I teach endless Chiaras too, and every baby I know born this year is called Pietro. I definitely find it a bit sheep-like.

I don't want my child to get picked on for a weird name but I'd like something a little less common.

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Melassa · 25/05/2018 15:02

I do understand the associations OP! I could never give my DD the name Elena because every Elena I've ever met has been a total shit. Ditto Isabella.

Cosimo for Florence would be perfect Smile. We're a bit further up north and the connotations are a bit different. My DD has a Tuscan name, so far I've not met another child with the same name, although I heard one with the diminutive version the other day.

Rebecca is nice and sounds the same. There have been lots of Emmas lately (DD had 3 in her class at primary) and for some reason Lavinias as well (which always remind me of pot pourri). If you want to avoid really common, as in you call them at the park and 20 children turn around, avoid Giulia and Sara. Sooo bloody common and unimaginative. For the boys you've already binned Luca/Lorenzo/Francesco but there are a lot of Alessios and Matteos around as well. It seems that a lot of Italians feel safer giving their child a name that everyone else has, as if they have no desire for individuality. I've never really understood it.

Original poster
LeeMiller · 25/05/2018 12:55

Thanks Seamus. My favourites from your list are Clara and Max. I Love love love Francesco and Francesca but they are ridiculously popular here, same with Sofia, and I always hated having a super common name.

For me Laura and Beatrice sound too different in English and Italian, also Iris which I think is pretty. My favourite Italian boy's name is Cesare but I know my British family would butcher it!

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Original poster
LeeMiller · 25/05/2018 12:50

Stmajor that's outrageous! I will make sure DH goes with a copy of the rules!

I like all your names, especially Silvia, but I'm not so keen on the way Laura and Beatrice sound different in each country. DH has vetoed Isabella ("Isabrutta") and Silvia, I know too many Emmas. I don't like Nora and Ella is a close relative so not sure about Eleonora for those reasons, though it's one of my favourites, so elegant. I like Alida (after Alida Valli) but not Ali, and worry that Clara and Lucia are a bit old-ladyish here, and not in a good way.

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SeamusMacDubh · 25/05/2018 12:43

@Sgtmajormummy's names are lovely but you know Beatrice and Laura will be pronounced differently by Italian/English people. Doesn't matter unless it matters to you, though.

SeamusMacDubh · 25/05/2018 12:41

How about

Rebecca
Francesca
Martina
Marta
Luca
Giulia
Tessa
Max
Davide
Antonio
Francesco/Franco
Maria
Sofia
Clara
Sara

Original poster
LeeMiller · 25/05/2018 12:40

Thanks user those are wise rules, there's so many things to take into account. Few names have the same pronunciation, I might cross Leonardo off my list for that reason actually. :-(

Can I be cheeky and ask as an Italian what you think of the names I mentioned in my post? Especially if any sound truly hideous! It's so hard to understand the cultural connotations and perceptions of names, and I'm afraid to ask people in real life in case they tell me they hate something and I end up using it anyway, so I'm basically relying on my DH's taste!

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Sgtmajormummy · 25/05/2018 12:38

So many lovely girls’ names that work in both languages:
Isabella
Beatrice
Emma
Silvia
Laura...

DD is one of the above but I’m not saying which!
Personally I love Eleonora but didn’t want it being shortened to Nora (Batty) by the English side of my family.

DS has an Italian name (recently deceased grandfather and one I liked) so I wanted Jonathan for his middle name. The guy at the Anagrafe REFUSED (!) to register more than one first name. DH went to register the birth while I was still in hospital and I was furious at the time, but I have to admit it would have caused problems with the overly official Italian system.

Original poster
LeeMiller · 25/05/2018 12:33

Thanks Solasshole, I think that level of spelling difference is ok, but I want to avoid any confusion, my name gets said and spelled differently each time.

OP posts:
user1471523870 · 25/05/2018 12:26

Ahhhh I have your same problem but in revers. I am Italian and my babies will be born in the UK.
My thinking on the names are:

  • have to be international
  • have to be pronounced roughly the same in both English and Italian
  • have to be short (personal preference)
  • have to sound right with their surname

So far I have come out with only two but I still have a lot of time and don't even know the genders yet:).
Watching this space with interest.

Solasshole · 25/05/2018 12:20

I have a Scandinavian background so my cousins and I have names that work in England and Scandinavia but with the Scandinavian spelling. It's unusual spelling to English people but generally fairly obvious how to pronounce the name (e.g. Josef instead of Joseph) so never had loads of issues. If we have to spell our names to people we say for e.g. "Joseph with an f (Josef)" which I guess could be a bit annoying but really isn't that bad ime

(Couldn't think if a better example than Josef with an f lol sorry!)

Original poster
LeeMiller · 25/05/2018 12:11

Thanks Melassa, that's very helpful and sensible. We have eliminated a lot of names I love for the same reasons you did. Interesting about the middle names, I was told at the commune I must include all mine (though my signature is basically a squiggle). A friend was explaining the other day that it all hinges on whether you use a comma on the birth certificate or not? I'll double check at the anagrafe in any case.

We are in Tuscany and DH is Florentine so Cosimo is a classic here, without being Mattia/Lorenzo/Francesco common. I don't really like any of the long forms for Max. Lidia for me is ruined by the Lydias in Pride and Prejudice and The Handmaids Tale! And will Livia just be confused with Olivia by British family? Another problem is that I teach young kids and so many names have been ruined by associations (good and bad) with specific students, or just overuse.

OP posts:
Melassa · 25/05/2018 10:46

I was in exactly the same position. In the end we went for 2 Italian names as the non Italian ones I liked either didn't go with the surname, sounded like a different word (e.g. Ruby, Polly etc) or else would be completely unintelligible for Italians and she'd spend her life spelling it (Niamh, Phoebe).

Choosing an Italian name was equally complicated as it needed to be something equally phonetic to both Italians and English. I have a couple of friends whose names are frequently mispronounced when in the UK (Aurelia, Giovanna, Giada).

We ended up giving DD 2 names, one which is completely Italian, as it doesn't exist in English, but with the same phonetics as English, and one pronounced the same in both languages. It's not true you need to sign with both names, it's really only required for legal documents, everything else can be signed with one. My Carta d'Identità has both my names in it but my signature only has one initial, for instance. Ditto my DP, who has 2 middle names.

Of your list I would avoid names beginning with a J, I'd also avoid Cosimo if you live in the north. Leonardo works well for both countries, plus it's not excessively popular, at least not in the current 10-14 year group. Max would also work although I do prefer Massimiliano as the long version.

For the girl names most would work, Charlotte will probably end up being called Carlotta. Eleonora is beautiful, Livia is OK but Lidia sounds much nicer IMO.

Original poster
LeeMiller · 25/05/2018 10:31

Thanks mrsnec. Your solution for your DD sounds like a good compromise. I think something with an easy diminutive is important for British family and friends, and for me! Italians tend to shorten less (outside the immediate family and with a few exceptions that have standard nicknames), they seem more likely to lengthen names with ino/ina.

OP posts:
mrsnec · 25/05/2018 10:19

I do get that point about wanting to be different but some of the names on my shortlist were very popular in both countries. And also my favourite boys names which might have worked were already in the family (George and Max)

My shortlists were, Alexander, Gregory and Theodore, Sophia, Phoebe and Melissa.
People told me I was over thinking but dd does get small gifts from children at nursery when someone has a name day and they ring the church bells in the village. I am glad I did it. Dd's name also looks similar in both languages written down. Difficult in greek.

We use the English form of ds' s name but it's the Greek version on the bc and Dd calls him his greek name. So it would be like you, op putting Lucia on the bc but everyone calling her Lucy.

Original poster
LeeMiller · 25/05/2018 10:15

Thanks Sanity. I like Max and love Beatrice and Alice, but worry that they're pronounced too differently in each country. My nephew has a different dual nationality and a name that's spelled the same but said differently, and he's started rejecting/correcting the British pronunciation. Greta is very pretty. Anna and Ava were always in my top 10 but annoyingly sound funny with DH's surname (starts with a vowel), kind of like a disease!

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Original poster
LeeMiller · 25/05/2018 10:10

I love your taste, Teen! Unfortunately Luca is a family name and DH doesn't like Rosa, only English variants, says it's a southern old ladies name.

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sanitygirl · 25/05/2018 10:08

Max and Alex work well for boys in both uk and Italy.