religious names

*aisha Not Alisha is greatest scholar

All the prophets are the same, Muhammad is the last one. First one being Adam. Isa= Jesus, musa= Moses etc.

Four best women being: Maryam (Mary), Asiya (wife of Pharaoh) Khadija. (Muhammad's wife) Fatima (his daughter )

Sumayyah was first martyr. Alisha greatest scholar.

Wives of Muhammad include: Zainab, Mariya, Aisha, Sawda

All mortal but greatly admired.

Lots of kids named after them all.

Abd + a name of God =very popular names. Eg: Abd (servant) + al Hakim
= Abdul Hakim ( servant of the most wise.

That's why the name Abdul on its own makes no sense.

Are you researching this matter for some specific reason OP? Cos you're not a religious person so wondering why the sudden interest in religious names !

But you did ask if I was confused...! I never said I was an expert, just an interested observer.

When people say that it's basically religion that's bollocksed up the whole world, I think it's fair to point out that those with and those without a belief in the 'big man' are capeable if unspeakable acts 'because I said so'. No, I don't believe God tells anyone to do anything and I don't believe they actually really believe it either.

But back to names. Wasn't there something about parents trying to name their baby Beelzebub? Or wa that just an urban myth?

Of course any zeal can make a zealot. No need for degree brandishing - you could be speaking to an academic at a leading British university with degrees up to a PhD ;-)

The point is hardly about zealous fanaticism occurring anywhere and everywhere motivated by any force be it political or religious.

The point is that over the history of time, religion fuelled violence (and not all violence occurs across boundaries of nation states or on mass scales) by far outnumbers violence fuelled by atheist belief. Yes some atheists can become violent at individual to mass scales following other zeals. That still doesn't negate the basic principle that more crimes are committed in the name of religion than in the name of religion-is-crap. I truly can't state it any clearer.

My country used to practice Sati. Massive massive triggers so won't describe here - Google at your own risk. Religion has driven pretty much every mass massacre there that I can think about. It's India by the way. The years 1992 and 2002 in particular will never find justice for those murdered. Yes the non religious thoroughly useless communist party in a state there mass massacred some monks - on entirely different "reasons", but that does not change the basic point that religion fuelled violence outnumbers violence not fuelled by religion.

Oh but the cult of personality is just mind boggling.

I met old ladies selling tin badges in Moscow teary eyed over Stalin (a while ago now) and my Russian isn't brilliant but yes, they were almost idol worshipping this man and it reminded me of worshippers in St Peters square fit to burst when the Pope appeared at the balcony.

I had a slightly obsessive interest in the politics and social history of both countries and have read a fair bit - especially in the early days of regimes - you cannot negotiate as it has to be all or nothing for them to establish rule. A bit like Iran.

My son had a Santa in his class at school. I think she was Latvian.

I do see what you are saying mavis but as you've noted yourself there are actual physical things at stake that those countries were about. To me those are things you could ultimately resolve via negotiation. You can never resolve anything involving religion as it's about blind faith so technically there is nothing to negotiate. I also think though that sometimes faith is used as a cover for issues involving all the stuff you've listed, so maybe the lines aren't always that clear.

Anyway. Brainwashing is brainwashing I guess regardless of the motivation.

No the first one is called North.

The second one is called Saint

I think Tara Palmer Tompkinson's sister is a Santa.

I've met a Santa (not Claus).

Saint North? That doesn't exactly have a 'ring'. I worked in a place were there were some good old cathic names - like Assumpta.

Kim K called her kid Saint...

Not confused at all. How very kind of you to enquire after my my mental capacity. 3 years of modern and industrial history at uni hasn't gone completely to waste.

And communism in those 2 countries didn't run like a religious cult? Deify the 'great leader', create mythologies around them, publish rules and exterminate your 'enemies'. So yes, I do see a similarity with religious brainwashing.

People don't need an excuse to be shitty to others. It boils down to land, politics, power, natural resources and money.

but that's got nothing to do with religion and believing or otherwise in a god or gods which is what we were talking about.

I'm sorry what is confusing you? Nobody is saying certain atheist countries have not conducted violences for political causes. But more mass violences of the world have been fuelled by religion than the lack of it. To then pick out two atheist nations and point out that they conducted political violences is - not the point.

Well they did their fair share of invading foreign countries, whatever their excuses.

They may have been atheists but they weren't fighting/killing in the name of atheism. That was a political ideology not a faith (or lack thereof) based one.

Like China or the Soviet Union then? Yup aethiesm workef out well there then...

Well, when we start to have radical atheists bombing and killing and knocking on doors trying to convert people and having atheist cults and telling people what they can wear and what they can read and say then I'll be happy to stand on an equal footing with those of religion.

But for sure, yes I maybe could be more tolerant.

I neither agree nor disagree.

But when talking about matters which are not susceptible to proof, then it is right to preface with "some people believe" (standard MN advice when dealing with different belief systems).

Yes, the world would be a different (and some think a better place) if everyone was a tolerant agnostic. But belief systems, whether monotheist, polytheist or atheist exist, and not everyone is tolerant.

I know Francis, that wasn't a dig at your post, I was using it unaltered to make a different point.

Fine if you don't give a shit - just clarifying what people in different world religions believe.

Nope

And the fact they are all wrong and it's all total bunkum hasn't stopped them all trying to kill each other (and everyone else) over it for the last 1300 years or whatever. Madness.

Fixed it back.

If you want to disagree, use your own words.