Arguments with dp over names and surnames

I get the impression that you very much feel this is your baby, rather than both of yours.

This is a valid point. I imagine some mother's do feel like this, more than this is our baby. It's certainly going to colour their opinion on naming the baby if they don't share a surname with the father.

Mamma, I felt the same as you. To me a name is a name, and I never felt that my DC needed to share a name with me. DP felt stronger about this issue - he wanted to share a name with his DC, I didn't, and so I was happy for them to take his surname not mine. I see a person's name as individual or unique, really; it's their name, it's not half my name. Not sure if I've expressed that properly! But I think we are well in the minority for not minding.

Personally I decided to give child OH's name.

We never plan to marry but he is never not going to be my sons father?

Maybe our stance on marriage makes us feel very differently (IE we know its not for us as opposed to one of us wanting it and the other not) but I never had any strong feelings that baby should have my name? I wanted him to have his Dad's name.

Exactly, they both have different agendas. They need to work as a partnership otherwise it won't bode well for the rest of their child's upbringing.

Eminy, I get the impression her DP feels it's very much his baby ie wanting to name after his GPs even though OP doesn't love their names.

Sorry, posted too soon. What I was going to say is that we were both 100% in agreement about all 3 names in the end, which is important.

Obviously you may both have different opinions on surname, so I believe you have the right to decide, but you must both be equally happy with first names.

It doesn't sound like you have much of a partnership with the father of your baby to be honest, I get the impression that you very much feel this is your baby, rather than both of yours.

I don't actually think that the surname matters a huge amount. DS has dp's surname (and his middle name as a first name as it happens so I guess I really dropped the ball there!) and it hasn't caused us any problems this far (only 11 weeks in though so not much experience)

Baby will automatically be given mother's surname at the hospital. I know this because I hadn't changed my surname since getting married and DS had my surname on his wrist bands.

He has DHs surname but I chose middle name (family name) and will do the same if we have another. DH was happy with this arrangement. Funnily enough I chose not to change my surname and it makes no difference although does confuse some of the older generation a bit.

I think it's really important you 100% agree and love first name. Let OH have the middle name that he wants if you don't hate it and are ok with it and then that seems like a good compromise to me.

It boils down to how you feel about marriage I think. I know it's unimportant to many people, I can understand that. However it's extremely important to me and my dh and our families.

We'll just have to agree to disagree beavington. Yes, I'd be very angry if I had fallen pregnant and my oh didn't propose. It's entirely hypothetical in my case anyway because I am married.

"You are talking about a very specific scenario which OP has not actually stated to be the case."

Yes, because OP is long gone and we are talking more generally.

beavington said "I think there are two different conversations taking place here though. One where female wants to marry and male does not hence talk of if male wants childs name then they should marry[...]"

OwlCapone quoted that and said "So, blackmail?"

and my post was clearly in direct response to that (so specifically discussing the situation "where female wants to marry and male does not").

Oh and why would you be angry if you fell pregnant and your partner didnt propose? Procreation does not oblige you to marry. If a person wants the stability of marriage then they should maybe propose themselves and go ahead with it or form new relationship etc. But getting pregnant is not a precursor to marriage!

Then even if you are angry and resentful because you are pregnant and the unspoken pact that you had invented has been broken, then claiming naming rights to the child is just a ridiculous reaction.

gemerama no one has said woman has to bend over backwards to please male. Just that in an equal relationship all aspects of a dc should be discussed between equal partners. Not all of this well my rights trump yours so there.

I think were still talking about different things tbh tortoise. You are talking about a very specific scenario which OP has not actually stated to be the case. I was really responding to all the posters saying things along the lines of 'of course the babys surname will be yours, its a given!' As though it is not something to be discussed between partners.

Seems it's expected for the mother to bend over backwards to please the father but if she wants to use her own name that's seen as bribery or black mail. Interesting double standards!

I get the impression op would like to marry her oh, but he's not amenable to that at the moment. In her situation I would 100 per cent be calling the shots on names. I have a friend in a similar position, always maintained she didn't want to get married, but quietly hoped her oh would do the decent thing. Her dd is now 3 and still no sign of a ring and she hates that her child has a different surname to her. Would massively piss me off too.

I agree with you Tortoise. I had an interesting conversation with a (male) friend at the weekend about his unborn babies surname.
He wants it to have his surname his GF wants hers, his argument is that its traditional.

I told him that a) it was "traditional" to have a shortgun wedding when finding yourself up the duff and unmarried but thankfully times have moved on from that stigma.
And b) its actually traditional for babies to have their mothers surname, but whether the baby and father shared a surname depended on whether the parents were married. And again we've moved on from automatic assumption of name change.

So if he doesn't want his girlfriend to have his surname why does he want his baby to? There was no answer.

If the dad doesn't want to get married or makes vague reference to it happening, then I'd give the baby both surnames (not hyphenated and his name first followed by your name last) and say if you get married at a later date you can drop your name from the end.

More or less, yes (remember that we are talking exclusively in this bit of the discussion about a situation where the mother WANTS to marry the father and take his name but the father refuses, while also trying to insist that the child MUST be given his name). I don't see marriage that way in a wider social context, but in that specific scenario I don't see why the father should get his own way on everything.

He doesn't want to get married because it's just a piece of paper? Fine; so is a birth certificate. If legal structures (e.g. marriage) that he doesn't fancy (but that are important to his partner) aren't important but legal structures that he does fancy (e.g. legal name of child) are really really vital to him, and he effectively wants to have all significant decisions default to his way of doing them then he's trying to have his cake and eat it.

It's interesting that the situation being described here as "blackmail" is the one where, given two decisions neither of which is individually amenable to compromise, the mother gets her way over one major decision and the father gets his way over the other. The situation where the father overrides the mother's wishes on both and does whatever he wants seems to be ethically hunkydory.

Actually, I reckon in the situation where the parents have different surnames and they can't reach a compromise, one of them probably is acting like an arse. Compromise being the key to all decent relationships and all that.

Does "having their cake and eating it" refer to not being married?

It's not blackmail. It's refusing to let someone have his cake and eat it.

And I don't get your "You both need to agree on the baby's whole name. Anything else is unfair." -- yes, that's the ideal. But sometimes parents just won't be able to agree and there isn't a compromise position (on a surname, at least. In order not to be able to find some common ground on a given name at least one of the parents has to be acting like an arse). When parents are unmarried, legally the casting vote effectively goes to the mother (as she can register the birth herself but the father can't). What's your alternative?

One where female wants to marry and male does not hence talk of if male wants childs name then they should marry

So, blackmail?

Yes, I think you are right beavington. I'd have been angry if I'd fallen pregnant and my partner didn't propose. Hence why I would give the child my maiden name if I was in that situation. The fact is my surname is now the same as my husband, so it's not an issue for us. I totally get where op is coming from though.

Not married and both kids have DP's surname. It's a nicer name.

Flowerygirl said it on the previous page. I agree with whoknowswheretheimegoes

I think there are two different conversations taking place here though. One where female wants to marry and male does not hence talk of if male wants childs name then they should marry (why not if you disagree so much on where your future is heading, do not decide to have a child together and then argue over naming rights). The other is those who are married and kept name or are unmarried and unbothered by marriage looking at bringing a life into the world together and arent really thinking ahead to any inevitable breakup

I don't think anyone mentioned potential relationship break down or being left holding the baby. so why is that being referenced? Personally I want the same surname as my child. That's important to me. It's one of the main reasons I got married. I believe strongly in all that. That may not be the modern way but it's important to me. If the man I was with wouldn't marry me then I would certainly give the child my name.

I would never have dreamed of telling OH that I had the final say in the baby's first name, even though we aren't married.
The plan was for baby to take his surname. Then in the hospital, the name was written down on her tag with my surname, and we realised it worked quite well - we added his surname on the end on the birth certificate (double-barrelled but no hyphen) and we've not had any problems.