American names = bad?

Madison Smith is an example of parents choosing a fashionable name over something more in tune with their heritage, because Madison is nothing to do with anyone's heritage.
I know people whose heritage is so mixed that the only cultural identity that they can reasonably relate to is American.
There's actually nothing wrong with that, as difficult as it might be for you or me to wrap our heads around.

Frazzled -- Irish people were considered to be at most only one step up from apes back in the 19th century, as you will see if you peruse Punch magazine cartoons online and similar American incarnations.

It is hard to find any depiction of Catholic Irish people in magazines like that that were in any way complimentary. They were definitely not considered to be 'white', which meant White Anglo Saxon Protestant, rich or poor, in the American context (and the British context) in the 19th century.

They are often depicted with potbellies, claws for hands and simian features, often seated on barrels of whiskey, while WASPS and British are shown as normal humans or even semi-Grecian.

It's very English-centric view of the world to view common American names as 'fashionable' simply because they aren't in your home country.

Names like Madison are relatively new in America. I view them as fashionable because that is what they are. It's nothing to do with being Anglocentric.

Here is a graphic illustrating the very recent popularity of Madison and here is a similar one for Brittany.

These names came out of nowhere. They were not common until very recently. Brittany's star seems to have waned, while Madison is still topping the charts.

Madison Smith is an example of parents choosing a fashionable name over something more in tune with their heritage, because Madison is nothing to do with anyone's heritage.

I think a lot of Irish travellers go to Britain because the prejudice they face there isn't as bad as the prejudice they face here, because British people can't really tell I guess.

Yes sneering at travellers is dreadful. I did a course recently and there was a traveller on it, she did really well, really high scores the whole way along. Her husband was against her doing the course. He used to wait for her outside. He did everything he could to sabotage her. She was very clever and to our shame we kind of discussed her lot in life when she didn't show up. We were all willing her to leave him but if it's hard for a settled woman to leave a controlling abusive husband, it's a million times harder for a traveller to leave an abusive husband.

I'd love to think channel 4 could have donated some money to womens aid type services for traveller women. Blimey what a tangent.

thecaroline, it's not just the U.S.

In the 1960s a room to let in the UK might come with the proviso of "no blacks, no dogs, no Irish".

There has long been a knowing joke amongst Irish people in the UK that you are "innocent until proven Irish".

And as for Irish travellers, racism towards them is absolutely acceptable to most British people. Do you think there would be a television programme made, called, "My Big Fat Jamaican wedding"? Anyone would see immediately that to sneer at the culture of Afro-Caribbean people would be racist. But sneering at Irish travellers is mainstream.

Interesting. Not the irish emigrants finest hour, colluding with the oppression of the slaves. Good for Daniel O'Connell for speaking out. On the other hand, it's a big plinth to hand to poor people with no choices, responsibility for the welfare of another race, their competitors for work too.

just one more question, was there Paperwork to confirm 'whiteness'? Like a pedigree or a sort of white-american passport?! If the person succeeded financially, and supported the establishment, was that enough?

Race and Hispanic Origin are two separate categories for the US Census, which recognizes that race and ethnicity are not the same thing. So some Hispanic people are Caucasian; some are not.

It was a few years back now op when I was in my teens, I suppose I'd not given it much thought until I was in America for an extended period and was signing forms etc.

I see how it makes sense

So "White American" at that time meant Establishment?

I will read the article now. Thank you for the link.

I was quite surprised to find that Hispanic people are considered a different race in America.

Whereas in Europe, Spanish people are not, they're white.

I learned that from a Fannie Flagg book.

I just googled "irish people needed to become white" and something came up about American definitions of Whiteness, but even by that definition which includes Europe of course, it doesn't make sense to me!

I didn't know that there was an official definition of whiteness in America!

Well actually, no hang on, I think I remember that if somebody had even one great great grandparent that was black they weren't considered white and had to 'pass'.

By all means explain what you mean though. I am interested. Not interested enough to go and research another country's history but certainly, sufficiently interested to read an explanation of "irish people needed to become white" on this thread. I am sure you can understand why this is a very confusing thing to read. I am aware that the poverty-stricken irish faced prejudice.

Wow! i have history cpming out of my ears! Not american history granted but there is no account that woul make irish people non-white.

I
Obviously non white people were subjected to prejudice because.... they were poor. And the jewish subjected to prejudice because they werent.

DD1 is at an international school and her American friends are called: Elizabeth, Katherine, Victoria, Julia, Sophia and Kate.

I believe that's the rationale behind them squoosh, but yes, it's very Dynasty.

I was really hoping that Remington's surname was Steele, but alas, it's not!

Still giggling at Remington.

Those names are hilarious Tess, and yes, very American.

I suppose they're supposed to sound upper class and successful. It's very Dynasty though isn't it?

There are children in my son's high school named Kensington (g), Cortland (b), Remington (b) and Waverly (g).

These are four examples of what I see as being (truly) American names; i.e rather pretentious sounding surnames/place names used as first names. There are other children at the school with similar names.

I can't imagine children with these kind of names anywhere else, I really can't, to me they are simply American.

Yes, I agree with that pico. If I had picked a traditional name from our home country my parents would have been very shocked.

It's quite useful for the more unusual of my children's names to be able to say 'DH was born in x country' and the cultures that make us up are part of how we chose what we liked but they have never been the deciding factor.

Completely agree Ruby.

I think that the some if the British have quite a different attitude towards names from people's cultural heritage. My DM is very assimilated and was horrified that I was considering a name from her original country for DD. She said that since DD wasn't entirely of that heritage it wasn't appropriate and we should use a 'normal English name'. DD does have a name that is mainstream in the UK, but its origins are classical, so I have no idea why my DM thought it much better. Perhaps part of my DM's concern was due to the discrimination she experienced during her life in the UK.

But if you're 4th generation American, and thus your Polish surname comes from your great-great-great grandfather, so you are at best 1/16th Polish - why should that very slim connection override all the prevailing American culture that your family has built up? Why would you need a Polish first name to 'match' your surname? What about if the Polish connection is maternal, and so your parents go for 'Madison Smith'?

It's very English-centric view of the world to view common American names as 'fashionable' simply because they aren't in your home country.