Jayden

There was no wilful misreading of posts. Care proceedings were mentioned in order to illustrate why certain names are undesirable.

In no other form of prejudice do we still advocate that we cow tow to those who hold the prejudice.

We don't tell people not to have mixed race kids because of rampant racism. We not tell gay men to one it down a bit.

But tere is this utter blind spot when it comes to ths issue.
You can see why. The very people going on about are te ones who hold the prejudice and they don't see anything wrong with it.
All this guff about 'well rightly or wrongly people will judge'

It really means 'when I hear that name I think your child is common and I have no desire to rethink my attitudes so you have to change, not me.'

Fucking ridiculous .

fair enough easy - I agree with you that the connonations shouldn't be there.

My oldest daughter is called Savannah. She was born when I was 19 and I thought the name was beautiful and exotic. I still think it's beautiful. Now I am older, live in the home counties, teach in a private school (which Savannah attends) and have 2 younger dds (one with a 'normal' name and one with a 'posh' name) I sometimes wonder whether I should regret the choice. I don't think I do and I believe my daughter will do exactly the same with her life as she would do had I named her Isabella. But I have absorbed enough societal snobbery and convention to notice when I stand in front of her class and call out 'Hugo, Sophia, Annabelle, Henry, George, Lydia and ... Savannah come here' (I made the other names up btw, I have not just posted a class list!) On the other hand, if it's 'good enough' for the queen's great granddaughter ...

Plus there are plenty of other children at the school who buck the trend and have names that many wouldn't expect to find there.

Standards that not everybody cares to live by (sorry - posted too early!)

Manic, both really. My name and DDs name have created sneaky snorts from snobs, (even though they are both cultural names - but easy to pronounce in English so often assumed to be 'made-up'). In saying 'our', I am also generalising WC names. I don't doubt that they come with prejudiced connotations, what I mean is that those who judge by those connotations are fools. The connotations didn't start themselves; the names are held up against MC 'standards'.

So excuse me for getting my back up when MC snobs look down on our names and then tell us about how hard they found it when they 'mucked in' with the working classes.

By our names, do you mean names from your own family or was that a more general 'our' ie working class names. Because, if it's the latter then I think you're unintentionally backing the view that some names do come with prejudged connotations. Which means that, while judging a person is never right, judging a name as being from a certain socioeconomic background is natural and correct. (I am not saying that that then makes it okay to extend the judgement to assume things about the person's character, intelligence, prospects etc)

Lettice is horrific. Except on salads.

Rabbit - to be fair Joseph isn't much more 'boring' (by which I assume you mean common/popular) than Jayden. Joseph currently ranks at 22 and Jayden at 37. They're both pretty up there in the 'boring' stakes. Personally though, I don't think it's a bad sign if a name is top 50 - it suggests there's a high chance that it's a lovely name people like.

My own suggestion is just to avoid the extremes so as not to be pigeonholed.

My own opinion is that Jayden, Chardonay, Molly-Mae, Keegan are just as extreme as Jolyon, Ptolemy, Perdita, Portia and Lettice

I don't believe there are such things as MC names usual - there are distinctively WC names and there are distinctively Posh names then there are names that are distinctively boho or from a certain national/ethnic/religious background - everything else is just names.

Why have your own children and then give them someone else's favourite name, whats the point?
The suggestion of 'neutral' sounding names is depressing makes me think magnolia paint, when you carry a child and excitedly await the arrival you should be allowed to be excited about the name you have chosen not be obliged to choose from the shortlist of constantly recycled classics.
When my brother told me hes son would be called Joseph I though why? why? how boring for a brand new person.

So, with now opened eyes, the way of tackling those prejudices is to uphold them?

How hard we found it Easy? No. What a real eye opener it was to a very real prejudice.

Fair enough usual but that doesn't mean that people warning about the snobbery are the snobs.

Spero, you have responded with good humour and grace to the swivel-eyed horde who have wilfully misread and misunderstood your entirely coherent and sensible points. I salute you.

Fideline I think that was quite clear. That's why it made me laugh. I've lived in an "undesirable" part of London my whole life. I even have a not-obviously foreign name. My daughter doesn't rub shoulders with the disadvantaged kids for the 'undesirable' areas, she is the disadvantaged kid from the undesirable area. So excuse me for getting my back up when MC snobs look down on our names and then tell us about how hard they found it when they 'mucked in' with the working classes.

You know snobbery is about the only form of discrimination still legal in this country.

THAT is why it is wise to give your DC names that don't pigeonhole them.

Easy.

It is because I know full well what it is like to be judged on your back ground at I would be wary of choosing a name for my child that would provoke that reaction from others.

That is all I have been saying for a number of posts now.

How interesting that some of you chose to build on what I have said in such a unique and interpretative way.

Well, this has been 'fun' but as I am middle class it's probably time to go and point and laugh at some poor people now, so I will leave you to carry on frothing about all the utterly awful things I have (never) said and implied.

Because clearly you won't or can't actually read what I said.

Easy she was talking about an undesirable address within Brixton.

Spero : I do think it is deeply sad and depressing that out of a list of ten names, I can tell you which ones are usually found in care proceedings and which ones never

You're right that you didn't explicitly make those claims, but it is quite clearly implied in the comment above.

As for these gems: amongst whom my daughter was educated for three years. and I had a similar experience when I lived in Brixton, being judged first on my address., they just made me laugh! "My daughter actually sat in the same classroom as poor children! She rubbed shoulders with them!" You must know exactly what you're talking about then. You must know what it's like to be judged because of your background.

It is utterly amazing that I have to keep saying it, but please, please, please do show me where I have 'sneered at' or 'looked down' upon any one who isn't middle class.

I am now worried that my account has been hacked by the Daily. Mail because I am sure all the people deliberately misunderstanding me can't possibly be as stupid and dishonest as their posts might suggest.

I think the looking down at the WC is very controversial.

I really don't think that was Spero's intent.