Why have the more elegant old fashioned names not come back round?

I know an Evelyn, but it gets shortened to Evie poss to make it more cheeky chappy!

It has always amused me that Evelyn Waugh's wife was also called Evelyn. That's very unlikely to happen now as Evelyn has been commandeered by the girls.

Seems that more names gravitate to the female side than vice versa. Shirley, Hilary, Vivian etc. Julian was a female name once though, wasn't it?

sure OP.......just proffering my tuppence. I would agree that Elizabeth, Margaret and Rebecca are elegant and working class. But they are (to me) quite different from those you originally list. I have a sister called Elisabeth myself - working class family.

Biggles good post - I didn't mean to confine my observation to just the party in power (though I do think that the current government is reigniting class identities - though that is part of a more nuanced picture that I think includes a return to traditional values in political rhetoric) - but political / material / cultural. As you say.

They're not working class names, they're just names, really. Very universally-used ones.

I mean, the Queen and her sister have two of those names.

I also know a Byron in his 20s.

Though come to think of it his DM's an English teacher so she may have gone for the literary angle I guess.

I know a little Edgar, Eddie to his friends - lovely name IMHO.

I really like Julian and Evelyn.

I think it's all about trends, and I very much get what you're saying about 'cheeky chappy' vs more elegant names.

The trend for the past few years has been for nickname-style names, diminutives, etc (especially for boys) and cutesy, frilly, vowel-ending names (I include 'y' in with that) especially for girls.

So Isabella, Amelia, Amelie, Sophie, Sophia, Evie, Ruby, Milly, Molly, Evie, Lily, Olivia, Arabella, etc, etc... Charlie, Alfie, Archie, Billy, Harry, the whole shebang.

But the trend is definitely starting to shift, which is why people on this thread are saying they're noticing more of the names in your original post.

Consonant-ending names for girls are starting to trickle in - Margaret, Agnes, Edith, Mabel. And yes, more formal, less nickname-y names are coming back for boys - Julian, Laurence, etc.

But it takes a while for those on or behind the curve to catch up with those ahead of the curve. People start to hear certain names more and more and they seep into the general subconscious. Suddenly the old connotations associated with the names give way, and they begin to sound fresh and current, and all of a sudden there's a new zeitgeist, and everyone thinks they're bestowing an uncommon, under-used name on their child ... only to discover everyone else is doing the same thing.

There's an eternal debate on MN about the rights and wrongs of putting a formal name on the birth certificate, and using a nickname for everyday. Lots of people feel this is pointless and use the same nn on the BC. This is fine, but without a shadow of a doubt, those names will sound very dated to the next generation. No real harm done and there will be lots of kids (then adults) in the same boat. But those sorts of names will very much sound from this era, by the time everyone has moved onto the more formal sorts of names.

Interesting idea re the political party in power, and whether it's left- or right-leaning. It probably does have some influence, but name trends are far greater than the confines of one country. Most English-speaking countries currently have many of the same sorts of names being popular at the same time, some of which include left-leaning political parties in power.

I'm not reading any class threads! I have opinions formed outside Mumsnet, if you can imagine such a thing and cmon, your OP mentioned servants, for god's sake!

I am actually not crusading here anyway, I am genuinely offering my opinion on these name trends. All the 'elegant' names you list sound quite monied, to put it another way. And that plays a part in their popularity, or otherwise.

Byron? I don't think that is old-fashioned or elegant. It sounds American or Australian and fairly modern to me.

Was Byron used in the past as a given name?

Really. I know of a victor, Edgar, Laurence, evelyn and verity all under 8. I also know some across the ages ie: Laurence who is 60, 22 and 3

Seems to be back like many other names

The last few babies to be born to friends/ family are Conrad, Arthur, Thaddeus and Elizabetta

Historically favoured by the middle and upper classes. As opposed to "scullary maids [sic]" and cheeky chappies

Ironic that you don't include Grace as an "elegant" name, given its clear meaning!

I don't think any of your listed names are camp, btw. Or "right wing", whatever that's supposed to mean in the context of forenames.

I think naming trends are political - they reflect the material conditions of the day, that's for sure. I have proffered an answer to your question, anyway!

Few Evelyn's about and I love Frances. Constance sounds horrid I know one and I cringe when she says it .

On the first list.

Lots of Evelyns and a few Byrons, Francis, Constance, and a few other names along with all your names on the list.

and OP, does 'less sophisticated' mean working class? you might just say that.