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Original poster

Sorcha... pronunciations?

392 replies

pinkytheshrinky · 11/09/2011 06:45

I know that for the most part this name is pronounced Sor-kha but I met a nice older lady years ago who was a Sor-sha - I do really like this name and it is top of the list for my new dc. What do you think?

I do also have two other dds with Irish names who's spellings have been Anglicised so I do have form for this....

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lettinggo · 20/09/2011 17:08

Pinky, your last post epitomises how little you understand Irish history and culture. If you did, you would understand why there are no Irish names in your DH's extended family, and why they are flourishing now.

mathanxiety · 20/09/2011 17:01

'What I honestly do not understand is why the Irish can import English names and adapt them but it is not ok for anyone else to do that.'

Here the key word is 'adapt', as in 'change the spelling and the pronunciation'. As has already been pointed out to you, with examples of Irish spellings and pronunciation of many names thrown in in case you didn't believe it, spelling has changed along with fitting the sounds into the Irish mould.

I don't know why you don't understand that following your own logic here would mean changing the spelling to Sorsha. Because that is in fact the name you have chosen.

Your pronunciation is prevalent in Scotland? Take a look at my earlier link. CH doesn't get pronounced SH in Scotland.

You give yourself too little credit in the giving as good as you get department.

Original poster
pinkytheshrinky · 20/09/2011 16:28

Math - all the Irish rellies have English names as it goes so I would love to hear all about how they are so passionate about their language (which none of them speak actually) - Three generations of DH's Mother's family and not an Irish name between them. I just don't care what they think to be honest - it would be a bit hypocritical no? My Dh's Father is the only one who spoke and still speaks Irish as he was raised in a very remote area and even he has an English name! And he wouldn't give a monkeys for reasons I have relayed before.

I have met more people with Irish names in our Catholic school than in DH's family either in Ireland or America...

Do you really imagine I will be laying awake at night worrying about what distant family think of my daughter's name? Being paranoid that they don't really like it? errr no. They like the other two girls with their 'modern' Irish names - they were pleased as punch at those as it happens and they love the boys names too and they are Latin so no, that is not an issue

And for the record I would be appalled if this name was the next big thing - common I do not do Grin

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Original poster
pinkytheshrinky · 20/09/2011 16:19

lettinggo - I do think I was clear really early on that I would still do as I want. I am genuinely fascinated that there are so many Sorchas pronounced wrongly. I do think the pronunciation makes sense in the UK. There do seem to be a lot for something that is so wrong. I guess it is the same thing as the Caitlin thing and again I had no idea this was also a crime against Irish - I am guessing that most people don't.

I do understand the historical aspect but I am not carrying the can for that - I have never claimed it has been about that, this is not about honouring heritage in our family - it has just been a name I have always liked and actually has been a lot about the person I knew that had the name too.

What I honestly do not understand is why the Irish can import English names and adapt them but it is not ok for anyone else to do that. Lots of nations have an axe to grind with England, I am not ignoring that but does that mean that I cannot change something (along with a lot of other people it appears) without having the race/culture/history card pulled - Like i said I am not a colonialist - it is bloody absurd to say that when you don't know me at all.

I have taken a lot of stick on here and got really slagged off as well as being told I was fucking up my child's future (!) - sad that when people cannot get their own way no matter how right they imagine they are they then resort to plain nastiness.

I am appreciative of all the nice advice and input - I am not doubting the legitimacy of what you say (however I would still love to know why my pronunciation is so prevalent in Scotland) but getting fucked over is not very nice and I have taken more than my fair share here I think.

I know native languages are important of course but I really don't think that my little adaptation of a name is going to break the bank, so to speak.

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mathanxiety · 20/09/2011 16:07

I mean, just because you have no problem with dismissive and ignorant remarks doesn't mean everyone else will be so 'refreshingly frank' for want of a better term.. (Just trying to put a positive spin on the cringeworthy spectacle you have provided)

mathanxiety · 20/09/2011 16:03

'They cannot all be ignorant can they?'

Hahahaha

Wouldn't it be hilarious if Sorcha (not Sorsha) became the next big thing in names? I mean, look at Niamh -- who would guess that such a ridiculous spelling and pronunciation would turn out to be perfectly within the grasp of the British?

Have you ever stopped to consider that people you meet and introduce your baby to, including your DH's Irish rellies, who hear the mangled name Sorsha are being much more polite to your face than you appreciate?

lettinggo · 20/09/2011 15:48

I was really enjoying this thread. It was nice that people could disagree to disagree even though some people were blatantly WRONG but have a laugh out of it.

Pinky (note the capital letter usedWink), you're going to do what you're going to do. At the end of the day, it's a name and if you love it, your dd will love it.

But as much as you have a right to mispronounce it, as do many others, I think a lot of Irish people are very sensitive about our language, me included. There's history and cultural identity all bundled up with it and some folk will feel it more strongly than others when someone "attacks" the language, and I'm not saying you are. I just think that unless you're Irish, you can't understand how it feels to be "dismissed" especially when you know you're right.

I also agree with Maryz, it's never ok to speak to someone in a language you know they don't understand, that's deliberately rude. It's one thing to talk among ourselves as Gaeilge, but it's wrong to use the language as a weapon.

Off point completely, but does anyone remember the ad (can't remember what for) where the two girls are in a cafe talking as Gaeilge about a gorgeous fella at the same table as them and he asks them to pass the sugar as Gaeilge? Brilliant ad!

Original poster
pinkytheshrinky · 20/09/2011 14:22

Well if this is how you treat people when they present a minor irritation goodness only knows how foul you are to someone who really crosses you. You sound like such an unhappy person to be so full of vitriol for someone who is not really doing any harm.

You have made something fairly light-hearted and good natured into something really unpleasant - well done for a good days work.

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Stoirin · 20/09/2011 14:16

Thats their reading. Its not the end of my world, its a minor irritation at most. But I've got time to kill, as apparently have you.

Original poster
pinkytheshrinky · 20/09/2011 14:06

Funny though Stoirin, you act as if one woman mispronouncing an Irish name is the end of the world, the denigration of a language and smacks of Colonialism too. You have gone way overboard, that is what they are trying to say.

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Stoirin · 20/09/2011 13:55

one internet random gives an entire country a bad name?

Maybe if you're a hopeless drama queen. Hmm

mamsnet · 20/09/2011 13:53

Well said Maryz.. it made me cringe too.

Maryz · 20/09/2011 13:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
pinkytheshrinky · 20/09/2011 13:02

I have made another long post as this is my OP, and just being clear with you, there are lots of people here who use this name or know people who do. They cannot all be ignorant can they?

You are being insulting, rude to me personally and name calling. And honestly it has fuck all to do with Colonialism - get over yourself. Funnily enough you have no idea at all of my heritage which would make your 'insult' really amusing.

I am not bothered so much that you disagree with me, that is you right. I am bothered that you think it is ok to be so rude.

Did you really think I would bow to your 'superior' knowledge? like I sad, get over yourself. I just want to use a name - it is just not that serious.

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Original poster
pinkytheshrinky · 20/09/2011 12:56

lol Cointreau -yes exactly

My Irish Dh couldn't care less either.

I cannot win here, I am not going to change my mind and absolutely no point to pretend I will so there is nothing to be done.

Thank you too to Maryz. I do appreciate everyone's advice but I just want to do as I please.

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Stoirin · 20/09/2011 12:55

No knots here, its all very self explanatory. Is cuma liom sa diabhal.

You keep saying you're not bothered yet here you again with your long post. And I'm "daft" to use my own language? How quaintly colonial of you. Hmm

PS: find a dictionary, you don't seem to have problems understanding English words as much as Irish ones.

CointreauVersial · 20/09/2011 12:51

What a shame, I was telling DH about this thread, and how good-natured it has been, despite the difference in opinions. I log on today, and it's all gone Pete Tong.

Credit to Maryz for trying to keep it light. I'll have a look at Chaos's thread; she's always got something to say!

Last word goes to my DH. I asked him if he was bothered by the fact that he is disrespecting his nation by "mispronouncing" our daughter's name, his response was, "I don't give a flying f*." So there you have it.

Original poster
pinkytheshrinky · 20/09/2011 12:46

"Of course those with the wrong pronounciation choose to post, because they are the odd ones out and so are drawn to the subject."

Mmm yes very scientific - interesting in particular because if you read the posts some of those had no idea they were 'wrong'or odd ones out. Particularly all those in Scotland - where it seems it is a standard version. For instance someone knew two people with this 'wrong' pronunciation, remarkable luck wouldn't you say? People with Irish family who had not said a word about the 'wrong' choice... You are tying yourself in knots but it makes no odds to me. Sorry I think you are wrong.

Yes I can see how much you don't care, all the nagging and cajoling and insulting and irrational arguments; that is how much you do not care.

Nevermind. And Irish name calling, oh dear that's a bit daft isn't it, sweetly appropriate though I suppose. Hmm

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Stoirin · 20/09/2011 12:02

That what self-selected sample means. Hmm Of course those with the wrong pronounciation choose to post, because they are the odd ones out and so are drawn to the subject. You're again forgetting the thousands of people who have the correct pronounciation.

I couldn't give a flying shite if you change your mind, cailleach, you can do as you wish.

Original poster
pinkytheshrinky · 20/09/2011 11:39

hmm yes whatever - interesting though isn't it that those with the wrong pronunciation are the ones who chose to post. I am talking about this thread, there are more than a couple as you well know. How many people have come on and said oh yes mine is pronounced Sorika or whatever - it is at best evenly split but I think the consensus lays with my interpretation of it. And of course it is self-selected - it is an internet thread! People choose to post of not ffs.

Clutching at straws is what this is called. Genuinely it does smack of desperation and no amount of nagging will change my mind. Sorry.

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Stoirin · 20/09/2011 11:34

No, there are a couple on a self-selected sample. There are several thousand at least with the proper pronounciation elsewhere.

Original poster
pinkytheshrinky · 20/09/2011 11:30

Oh Crikey I will just have to sit and wait for the axe to fall. I do wonder though if this would firm up my chav credentials or should that be Chav or C.H.A.V - Bloody Hell it is all so contentious.

I do name change a bit though so perhaps I have slipped under the pedant radar?

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Maryz · 20/09/2011 11:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
pinkytheshrinky · 20/09/2011 11:17

Ooh Maryz I am not sure about capitalising my name - I will have to ask the MN Jury....... I rather liked the onewordness of it, maybe I am wrong about that too? Grin

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Original poster
pinkytheshrinky · 20/09/2011 11:12

No No Stoirin reread the thread there are a lot of Sorchas pronounced Sorsha (more than I thought there would be actually) - more than the other pronunciations which seem far less common.

Maryz I will have a look right nowSmile

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