Sorcha... pronunciations?

Frank McCourt was a bit of a Plastic Paddy though!

I've just listened to it on that site with Frank McCourt doing the pronunciations and it sounds like Finn to my uneducated ears

Nope, Fionn is NOT pronounced Finn. I'll leave Maryz to come along and explain it properly.. Iggypup is not too far off.

But should we not just put this thread out of its misery????????

Isn't Fionn pronounced Finn?

I had a Kerry Blue terrier called Cuchullainn. I now have one called Fionn,

We pronounced Cuchullain as: (choking noise) oo (choking noise)ullen.

Fionn is pronounced : Fyon.

My next dog is going to be called Ossian.

I love dogs, me....

Your insistence that you're not being arrogant and your confusion as to why you have come in for such a drubbing shows a real lack of self-awareness...

"My son has Cuchulainn as a middle name. I love this name, it is pretty much phonetic too..."

• Phonetic in which language? English? Or Irish? Why would or should it be phonetic in English? It's not an English name or word. Why would English rules apply?

If it is 'phonetic' in English than that is a happy coincidence, but saying that it is 'pretty much phonetic' has a complete air of arrogance and assumption about it, since you obviously mean it is phonetic in English and Irish words have no more obligation to be phonetic in a randomly chosen language such as English than they do in, say, Arabic or Hindu.

Out if interest, how do you pronounce the 'ch' at the start of the 2nd syllable? Phonetically...?!

"'I think it is perfectly reasonable to not want a name that is spelt and said vastly differently."

• Again - it's not spelt and said vastly different ---- in Irish...!!

If you can't see how these comments come across as anything other than arrogant and dismissive, then...

* '..whereas Cáitlín is pronounced Kawtchleen..' and '...but Sorcha is pronounced Sur-i-kha'...

mathanxiety, I am your biggest fan.

'I think it is perfectly reasonable to not want a name that is spelt and said vastly differently. '

LOL, so you take S-O-R-C-H-A and pronounce it Sorsha, when the obvious spelling of Sorsha would be S-O-R-S-H-A?

I seem to recall one of the reasons Sorcha Cusack was known as Scorcher Cusack was that that CH in the middle lent itself to a CH pronunciation.

You have chosen a name (Orla) with a spelling that is perfectly acceptable in modern Irish. The fact that it is completely correctly spelled and pronounced (though possibly the R is more of a W sound for you) seems to have happened completely accidentally however. You were right for the wrong reasons.

Caitlin/Conor etc are completely new names based on Irish names that are pronounced Kawtchleen and Cruhoor in Connemara Irish. The surname O'Connor is, in Irish, Ó Conchubhair, pronounced 'O Cruhoor' in Connemara Irish. Similarly, Sorsha, where the first and second syllables are both pronounced differently from the original name Sur-i-kha, is a new name and deserves a new spelling. Caitlin/Katelyn, and Connor/Conor are new English names with perfectly adequate spellings that convey their pronunciation, and therefore not wrong.

Conor is not pronounced 'Cruhoor' in Irish. Conchubhair is.
Caitlin is not pronounced 'Kate-lin' in Irish, whereas Cáitlín is.
Sorsha is not pronounced 'Sorsha' in Irish but Sorcha is. Because it is an Irish name, whereas Sorsha is not.
If you want to be logical, then you should choose the Sorsha spelling. However, logic is not your thing either apparently.

And Cuchulainn is not 'pretty much phonetic too' either -- how do you pronounce it?

I agree with Superfly wrt giving Brits a bit more credit where pronunciation of names is concerned. Look at Niamh, Fionnuala, Ruairí. etc.

I'm still in two minds about whether or not this is a troll post to be honest. Yeah Willow's a film, I've never actually seen it but there's a character called Sorsha who's apparently evil but then she turns good in the end. Or something. That's just what I've picked up online!

I think people are attacking you because they can't understand why you would willingly pronounce a reasonably common name wrong. That sentence isn't supposed to sound bitchy but I think it does, sorry! I have to admit I don't really see why you can't just change the spelling - I know you're naming her after someone, but why carry on a mis-spelt/mis-pronounced tradition? Again, I'm really not trying to sound like I'm on the offence here, I'm just asking! I know people have "family" names but I think the kid will fare much better if you either make up a new name (e.g. use a phonetic spelling of Sorsha) or pronounce it the Irish way. An English colleague introduced me to her friend once as Sorka and her friend (also English) said "Oh, isn't that usually sur-a-kha?" which just goes to show that it's started spreading in Britain too!

The poster who said that the regional variation is not that great is totally right - it sounds more or less the same everywhere, with the varying bit being the middle schwa. I think this thread was really just all of us trying to spell it out phonetically and ending up doing it differently from one another.

I hope that post makes sense, and again, I wasn't trying to offend - just couldn't think of a way to rephrase some things!

Willow is a film and its shite
No one is asking you to take their advice - you asked about thoughts and you got them. I have many Italian friends, I love some of their names but not too fond of the spelling/ pronunciation but would never of use a name from another nationality (e.g. Italian) for a child and changing it to suit myself for fear of the or . But that's just me.

You have made up your mind what you are going to do - which if course is your choice indeed. But give 'Brits' a bit more credit - a lot more of them are clued up about Irish names than you think - so be prepared for party invites to Sorsha rather than Sorcha and the when you correct the spelling (for the millionth time)

Call her Sorsha and say it's after the character from Willow.

Then go ahead, do it, but don't ask for opinion/ thoughts. Then you won't get them and you wont have to feel you have you have to justify what you are going to call your child.

Sorry not 'sh' as in sha

I refer back to my last post to you many pages ago, that in your OP you said you knew "that for the most part this name is pronounced Sor-kha" you wanted to change the proununciation to suit you and "What do you think?"

Well - you got your answers, you didn't like what was said and yes in reply to your post to mine, no - you can ask for advice and you certainly don't have to take it - but you are getting answers from posters who are Irish speakers and have a lot of respect for their language to be so dismissive towards them, well, is a tiny bit ignorant.

Also I always thought that 'ch' in Scots Gaelic was pronounced ch as in 'church' not 'sha".

Also, the Scottish don't pronounce "ch" as "sh" either ... just caught that. In fact, I love getting Scottish customers on the phone as they can usually pronounce my name right! A lovely Catríona from the Highlands and I had a great laugh about our names and their schwas one day

I have to say, I'm a little worried about what Sorsha will think when she's older if someone asks her about her sister's name. I greatly upset a little Keelan once by asking why her sister Cobhlaith's name was spelt the "right" way and hers wasn't. I wasn't very tactful when I was 10!

Blimey, and here was me ignoring this thread because I couldn't see how the hell so much input was needed on how to pronounce a name.

I love it. "Lots of other people are ignorant so it's ok if I'm ignorant too." Great defence!

See ds name is Riordan can't do accent but people seem to say reahden I want to go nooooo .As for spelling it for people I really thought it be easy for people to spell but it's not

And you lot wonder why folk resort to "made-up" names and spellings...

OK, here's a roundup for you:

Sur-i-kha/Sur-uh-kha (the final sound is very soft and not like a throat clearing sound) is how to pronounce the name no matter what your baby name books say. (This has been pointed out from the start of the thread). As Squeegie pointed out, baby name books are not reliable. As a rule of thumb if a book has any Irish names in its K section, then it should be tossed. Another thing to look out for is whether names that rhyme with Aidan are placed in the Irish category. (Just two of the many ways you can spot a name book that has been generated by some printing house software in much the same way that they print joke books.)

There really isn't that much regional variation. You are mistaking the efforts of many posters here to try to get you to understand the sound of the name, using the English language to convey the sounds, for vast differences in Irish pronunciation. Such vastness doesn't exist. (So this "there are so many variations and even with the correct spelling and pronunciation in the country of origin - I wonder if all Irish names are like this? I don't know.. I wonder if that is because this is traditional or if it is a consequence of so much traditional language being disturbed for so many generations? Don't know but it is interesting. is baloney).

In Irish the letter O is pronounced like the English letter U unless it has a fada over it, which indicates the sound is to be lengthened.
So Sor = Sur, or if you like 'Sir', as in 'Please Sir, can I have some more..'
In between the R and the C there is a schwa sound.
The letter combination CH is pronounced Kh or as in Scottish 'loch', a soft sibilant sound.

Seoirse (boy's name, Irish version of George) is pronounced SHORSHA. The Es are slender and therefore sound like SH in English.

Saoirse (girl's name, means 'Freedom') is pronounced SEERSHA or SARE-SHA depending on whether your Gaeilge is from west/north or southwest respectively.

Squeegie, I think you are right -- the name is as rare as hens' teeth in Scotland. I also agree wrt the air of arrogance.