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Original poster

Alasdhair - have you come across the spelling?

57 replies

purpleliza · 07/08/2011 19:42

We are struggling to find a name for DC3. We both like Alasdhair but I rejected it for DS1 because I knew the spelling was unusual and would be constantly written wrong. We have to use this spelling because it is passed down in DH's family. We have a traditional and fairly common Scottish surname but live in the south of England. Since this first argument, DD1 has been named Isobel which is constantly spelt wrong so I guess I am used to it now but I still have some reservations because no children seemed to have been named recently with this spelling at all.

Is this spelling common/regarded as normal in Scotland?
If you saw this name written down would you know how to pronounce it?
Do you think I am committing my child to a lifetime of name-spelling grief?

If you google it the only person alive with this name seems to be Stella Macartney's husband!

Thanks for your thoughts Smile

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OhBuggerandArse · 10/08/2011 22:10

Do come back and tell us how you get on with the family! It's all very well me us sounding off about it on here, but I know it's very different trying to balance all the competing pressures and family dynamics.

Especially if you have to tell your father-in-law that his own name is spelt wrong...

Original poster
purpleliza · 10/08/2011 08:48

Thanks all for your continued responses to this. I think the consensus is that it looks wrong. One of my original concerns was that my bil (who has Alasdhair as a middle name) was constantly corrected at school when he wrote his full name even when he tried to object.

Inmyprime, thanks for interesting info. on celtic revival. Tristan is also a name I like (have to convince DH however). Oscar was actually chosen on a whim when he was born because he was very early and we had not really finished the Alasdhair argument properly. However, I couldn't imagine him being called anything else now and despite the name's popularity, he is the only one at his school.

OP posts:
celtiethree · 09/08/2011 21:55

Not a gaelic speaker but a d inside a word is unvoiced i.e, sounded like a t. In this case we have lenition, when lenited the dh can have two different sounds, when next to a broad vowel (a, o, u)it has a gh sound a bit like ghost, with more aspiration, next to a slender vowel it has a y sound a bit like english yes. However, dh is often not sounded inside a word - therefore Alasdhair shouldn't work as you would pronounce 'Alasair' - or at least pronounce with a gh sound.

MatthewWrightOffTheTelly · 09/08/2011 21:19

In answer to the original question, I have never come across that spelling and it looks "wrong" to me. Am not Scottish though so I may not count Grin. The first four spellings on suzikettles' list are familar to me.

Isobel is IMO a fairly well known (and lovely) spelling. I can see that people may not automatically spell it with an "o" but it doesn't look incorrect or unusual at all IMO.

InMyPrime · 09/08/2011 21:13

When I'm talking about a soft 'd', OBaA, I'm thinking of the way the name Alasdair is pronounced by my DH, who is from the north of Scotland near Inverness. It has a softer pronunciation than an English 'd' - kind of closer to the 'th' sound in 'the' rather than the hard 'd' of e.g. dog. Maybe he just has a weird accent!

For Oscar, yes, it's probably not a traditional name in Scotland (not that I know of) but names like that from Celtic mythology - Finn, Oisin/Ossian, Maeve, Tristan etc - started to be used around the time of the Celtic Revival, at the end of the last century. Maybe more in Ireland, Wales and Cornwall than in Scotland though. Oscar Wilde's mother was part of the Celtic Revival movement in Ireland which is why he was named Oscar. I wonder if he's the main inspiration for people who choose the name these days??

WhereYouLeftIt · 09/08/2011 20:50

Ooh, Ishbel is lovely!

IssyStark · 09/08/2011 20:26

I agree that Alasdhair looks wrong. The standard Gaelic spelling is Alasdair or Alisdair. The h is unnecessary.

But then I'm an Isobel (Scots family so I have the Scots spelling) and am used to having my name constantly mispelt as Isabel, Isabell, Isabelle, Liza, Elizabeth, Isobelle, Isabella etc etc. I'm named from my grandmother who insisted her grandchild wasn't called Isabel as she'd been as she hated the nickname Isa so the parents went with the more traditional Scots spelling. Mind I was almost Ishbel.

kittensliveupstairs · 09/08/2011 12:49

Avoid all this nonsense and choose Duncan, if the H is necessary, Dhuncan Wink

OhBuggerandArse · 09/08/2011 12:13

But InMyPrime, the 'd' in Alasdair isn't a soft one. See my earlier post. Gaelic consonants have different qualities in different positions, and that 'd' is actually pronounced more like a 't'. 'dh' is perfectly correct in, for instance, Eilidh - but just not here.

And sure, Oscar is older than MacPherson, but I don't think the name's in widespread use in Scotland as a personal name before him. Would be delighted to be corrected on that.

InMyPrime · 09/08/2011 12:03

Do you not think, OBaA, that the people who spell Alasdhair with the 'h' are just trying to get close to the Gaelic soft 'd' by adding a 'h' in? It might not be 'correct' according to the spelling rules of Gaelic but it brings the pronunciation closer for an English speaker. I think in any case it's less incorrect than e.g. Mhairi, which is in the vocative case but nobody kicks up a fuss about that (or maybe some do...)

Oscar isn't a made up name, by the way. Its origins are actually in very ancient Celtic mythology. James MacPherson took his inspiration for the Ossian poems from the Fenian Cycle of Irish / Celtic mythology - same literary heritage as Scots-Gaelic, obviously. Oscar was the grandson of Fionn MacCool and the son of Oisin (Ossian).

OhBuggerandArse · 09/08/2011 11:36

I hesitate to comment on what that says about what's going on at the Glasgow Gaelic school. But I promise you, it really isn't fine. It's phonologically, etymologically and historically wrong. But if you don't mind that it doesn't matter, of course.

poppyknot · 09/08/2011 11:35

OhBandA Grin. Nothing like a good old 18th c controversy to spice things up!

weegiemum · 09/08/2011 11:30

I have 4 Gaelic-speaking children in the house today (2 of mine and 2 friends) and they all say its fine!

OhBuggerandArse · 09/08/2011 11:23

Here y'are.

Bop him over the head with that and insist on no 'h'!

Original poster
purpleliza · 09/08/2011 07:09

OhB&A really? Oscar is a Scottish name! Ha ha Grin

OP posts:
OhBuggerandArse · 08/08/2011 22:24

Oh, wrongness is in the eye of the beholder. Hence the whole of the preceding conversation...

But hang on a minute - just read the OP saying that Oscar isn't a Scottish name - it totally is! At least, as far as it's anything - was made up by Macpherson for his epic (pseudo-)Gaelic poem Ossian.

I think this means the OP has a v useful argument against her father-in-law's capacity to comment on the Alasd(h)air issue.

AitchTwoOh · 08/08/2011 21:50

i think it is that, yes. was thinking it looked 'wrong'. (or should i say 'wronger'?) Wink

OhBuggerandArse · 08/08/2011 21:48

Oops, yes, that was a bad example. But it should be Adhamh, surely?

AitchTwoOh · 08/08/2011 21:47

interesting that you choose adham. i know a gaidhlig-speaking adham.

OhBuggerandArse · 08/08/2011 21:39

The dh is a mistake. It's a hyper-correction, becaus it 'looks' more Gaelic - to those who don't understand how the spelling system works.

The 'd' isn't actually pronounced with that softened sound in Gaelic - actually more like a 't', which is why the most common English transliteration is 'Alastair'.

Please persuade your husband against it - he wouldn't try and call a child Gheorge, or Dhavid, or Adham, would he?

CroissantNeuf · 08/08/2011 21:35

I've not seen it with the 'h' in before.

I know an adult Alasdair (non-UK born so not a Scottish influence)

talkingnonsense · 08/08/2011 21:31

Go for it! You will end up calling him al, ally or sweetie pumpkin anyway!

Original poster
purpleliza · 08/08/2011 18:15

ha ha just realised I jsut managed to get the spelling of fils name in previous post. Perhaps this isn't a good idea.....Blush

OP posts:
Original poster
purpleliza · 08/08/2011 18:12

I am amazed that you all have not come across other spellings of Isobel Confused.

The health visitor didn't bother to ask and therefore put DD1 down as Isabel on her national health records plus there is Isobelle and Isabelle and of course Isabella which is really popular now and can also get mixed up. Most of her bits coming back from nursery or other groups have Isabel/Isobelle written on them.

Thanks Inmyprime for giving me more info. on the h. Alisdhair is my fils middle name and he still hasn't forgiven me for not giving DS1 a Scottish name therefore I didn't want to go into this subject in any detail with him.

I actually am mellowing now, as Girlwith points out if I call him Alasdair then he is going to have to spell it anyway so what if there is an extra h. DH is adament if we go with Alasdhair it has to have the h.

OP posts:
GirlWithALlamaTattoo · 08/08/2011 10:36

I quite like it. Any name with multiple spellings is going to mean he'll have to spell it out to people, but so do Katherines and of course Isobels. Alasdhair looks like a Scottish variant rather than a made-up variant, and it's still a recognisable, strong, masculine name.

If the spelling's important to the family, go with it.