Children being allowed to go to the toilet at school

Many teachers aren't able to have someone "pop in for a moment". They often aren't next to another classroom anyway. On call staff (if they even attend) are there for behavioural emergencies, not teacher toilet visits.

Many classes in secondary don't have a teaching assistant. When I left the Year 13 class I referred to upthread my classroom was one of two isolated on the third floor. The staff toilets were on the ground floor. No lifts. It often isn't possible for teachers to leave the room and they'll be disciplined if they do.

Then that falls to society as a whole. There is a distinct lack of respect and manners within our culture and it’s getting worse.

I don't need to log when I use the loo because the staff toilets aren't routinely vandalised by staff bunking off.

And all out staff are so tightly allocated that there's no one to "pop in for a moment" other than the loo monitor... who might get to me in 25 minutes

Which is exactly my point!!

If you let kids go to the toilet when they want, then the poor girl on her period, or the child with IBS won't be able to go to the toilet, because the toilets will all be vandalised or full of kids truanting and vaping, so the child will sit and suffer in silence.

By having a system, it allows kids who NEED to go to the toilet to actually go.

Yes please! Parents going into schools to see the reality of now (rather than their memory as a child) would be enlightening for those parents.

Working in a school isn’t my first career, and it was a huge eye opener seeing how a school operates having been a parent on the other side of the school gates.

of course, but that would then count as a medical thing so not what I'm talking about.

The point is that they don't have instantaneous access to a toilet, which is apparently what all school children now need. Whilst in adult life most people have to fit toilet breaks round other work commitments which sometimes means waiting a while.

It's part of growing up. Learning to get the best outcome for yourself within the constraints of places you spend time in.

Parents can make a big difference (and support the staff) by banding together and raising issues that are general issues.

Does she join the queue at the start of morning break each day. I know some children will be busy chatting and then think about going by which time, they are too late. She always goes at lunch and probably wouldn't poo anyway until she gets home. Does she not need a wee between lunchtime and hometime.

To be honest if she needs to go more frequently than 'normal' you need to get her checked by the GP. My son used to get stomach pains and be stuck on the loo every morning to the point he was unable to get to school on time. Then knowing he would be late, might feel unwell in school or need to poo again in school made matters worse. He missed a lot of school. He also missed fun stuff because of it too so it wasn't just a school thing. I took him to the GP and he was referred to hospital and given buscopan. He had a lot of tests which all came back fine. He was diagnosed with stress related IBS and prescribed amitriptyline which did help. He was unable to go to school and I ended up deregistering him. I provide copies of hospital letters to support his prolonged absences and we did get some help through the out of school tuition services (although that wasn't great it was something). School offered a pass but he would have been embarrassed to use it (they didn't lock the toilets though so the idea was he could put the pass on his desk and leave the room). Being anxious about being different/noticed made his symptoms worse. He was home ed for his gcse years and his symptoms completely resolved. He no longer needed the medication. He went to college at 16 and never had a day off sick. He is now at uni and doing well.

I would recommend getting some checks if she is needing to poo several times a day and uncomfortable waiting. There may be something that will make her more comfortable. Also to ask about the frequent urination although from what you have said, needing to go every couple of hours is not unusual. For that she needs to prioritise going before class and at the very start of break (but also worth a mention to the GP). School would likely accept a screenshot of her NHS records as evidence, and she doesn't need to be embarrassed taking that to the teacher as you would do that. You just need to persist with them until they grant the pass if needed and if they continue to ignore you then make a complaint. However I don't think them wanting something in the way of 'medical evidence' is unreasonably but your GP shouldn't need to write a letter.

In relation to your other comment, I’m not arguing - you’re just refusing to see anyones point that doesn’t align with your own!

If she needs to poo a couple of hours after eating lunch that’s roughly home time so what’s the problem?

also with regards to recording toilet visits
in our school it is in the students planner as [time] T [teachers initials].
And contrary to your view this has actually highlighted a medical issue for at least one student that I know off. And for another student with adhd it identified a need for movement opportunities within the classroom to prevent loss of learning. For others it has opened up communication. And for many many students it has increased their learning by choosing to stay in lesson rather than hang out in the toilets

And what if you are a girl whose period has just started? Waiting a couple of hours before going to the toilet is horrible and very embarrassing, Or if you have a heavy period and need to change your pad? Do you expect a teenage girl to have to explain to the teacher why she needs the toilet? Especially if it's a male teacher.
And what if there isn't the time to go to the toilet at break or lunch time as is often the case. Break is usually only 15 minutes and if more than a handful of children need to go there just isn't time .
Saying you have never had to leave the classroom for the toilet isn't the same at all. There are fewer staff than pupils and it's unlikely you have a huge queue to use the staff toilets. Staff also have free periods PPE time when they can use the toilet.children don't.
Young people are encouraged to drink water to make sure they are hydrated but I know children who refuse to drink during the day because they are not allowed to go to the toilet resulting in an UTI.

Well, good for you. You cannot have a school wide policy on one persons experience though.
I think that the asking for a key and then noting down when someone has asked to go to the loo is utterly demeaning. And arguably discriminatory for those who do have a medical condition or indeed difficulties in some way.
Who do need to go to the loo.
I had no idea schools were like this now. And I am glad it was different when I went to school.
If some children are misbehaving about the going to the loo that is what needs dealing with.

I think you’re missing my point.

In addition the OP referred to DD always having a ‘sensitive stomach’ which implies those poos are not ‘normally’ formed, or she has an immediate sense of urgency. But has never taken her to see a doctor.
she’s also said this problem only started when her DD started secondary school 8 ish weeks ago

Either the DD should have seen a doctor before now or there is nothing unusual going on and a toilet pass possibly isn’t needed as OP has now said that her DD has been using the toilet at school, so maybe she just needed time to get used to how things are different at secondary school.

It is a big change and that can be worrying at first, and worrying can often create tummy problems for children.

That's ridiculous. I despair of some secondary schools. They are no longer focused on the needs of the individual, it's not surprising that school refusals are increasing.

But it's not mad at all...

I am an adult and can easily manage a couple of hours without going to the toilet.

I have been teaching over 13 years and I have ONCE had to leave a lesson to go pee, and that was only because I was very heavily pregnant!

A healthy person should easily manage 3 to 4 hours without going to the toilet. If you can't you need to go see a doctor.

In fact, if you're going to the toilet more than once every 2 hours then it's likely you've trained your bladder to think it's full when it isn't and make you think you need to pee when you don't.

We take school trips and spend 3 hours on a bus and kids manage fine without a toilet stop.

Kids want to get out of lessons and go for a walk about because they're not interested in learning. That is the problem.

(and that's when the toilets get trashed, then have to be shut permanently which means fewer toilets available...)

What would help is if they re-introduced far more polytechnic colleges from age 14 (Y9) for children who want to do less academic stuff and more practical skills.

Does your area not have a self referral service for urology or incontinence?

An incontinence nurse would still assess you even if you're not wetting yourself as urine dip stick tests are not very good at detecting things like interstitial cystitis, birth related bladder trauma or many other issues that could mean you have urge incontinence.

Regardless of if it's self referral or not your GP sounds uninformed so I would suggest doing your own research and asking for a referral for yourself. You can't know there's no issue if you don't ask but needing to be in close proximity to a toilet at all times just in case you need another desperate wee half an hour later is reason for concern.

But that’s not true, the whole school are not trying to cram in because not every student will want or need to go!

A primary school with a toilet for every classroom is most certainly the exception rather than the rule!!!

How many times has your DD queued from the start of break and then been turned away at the end of break because they are locking the toilet?

There is a toilet issue at most secondary schools, in my eldest schools they have removed the external door to the corridors as it means people don’t congregate in there as it’s not a self contained room anymore.
The individual toilet cubicles have doors and that’s it, the area where the sinks etc are basically lead to the hallway outside.
His school you don’t need a toilet pass, teachers know the pupils well and would let children go during lessons if they were aware there is an issue and the child can be trusted.
There is always a queue for the toilets at breaks and lunch, but it moves fairly swiftly as there is a teacher hovering near the entrance.
My Son will not use a toilet all day, as he says they are gross, which isn’t ideal either!