Why are so many YP going to uni, when uni isn't right for so many YP? AIBU to think fewer YP should go to uni as it's only giving them a huge debt?

So you want young people in the UK to work on checkouts, rather than in more skilled roles?

I do think some people aren't particularly academic and that jobs that suit many people are jobs that a university degree isn't really beneficial for.

However, I just find it hard to believe that under the right conditions everyone couldn't benefit from as much education as possible. I also think without a university experience so many young people would fail to move out, live independently, have opportunities to move around the country, ultimately find jobs that would suit them, etc.

The issue is that it costs so much. Can anyone deny that we would benefit from a better educated society?

So what's your actual position - the UK should have lower levels of education than other countries, or the student's debt should be lower?

You sound very anti-university, and removing education will weaken the country. Why would you want that?

Basically this. At least some of them wouldn't choose to go if there were more apprenticeships or other training schemes available.

I just promoted a “YP” into a role in my team and the fact she had consciously chosen an apprenticeship instead of a degree was a point in her favour. I have another new hire in my team who has a degree, is working at the same grade as her doing a similar role but needs much more support because he’s never been in the workplace before. They earn the same but he’s presumably paying back his loan.

I have three degrees but they are not the right option for everyone, unfortunately it can be very difficult to get hired without one even for roles that don’t need it.

I agree. Dd25 is learning for learning's sake (English Lit), she has a beautiful mind, designed to soak up information and form opinions, it is her joy in life.
We are lucky. We have (just about) enough money to support her in her endeavours. It is a shame that only those with a bit of money can afford to follow the path of just learning.

It’s funny because my grandfather used to make those kinds of comments about my father’s generation, and my great grandfather said the same about my grandfather’s. I can only hope I don’t become as churlish and spiteful in my old age…

Neither of my children went to uni. A lot of their friends ds did. I did wonder if it would hold them back but they both got apprenticeships at 16 and once completed got promotions, changed to different firms for further promotions. By the time they were in their early 20s both were buying their own homes and earning extremely well. I know things will level out with their friends when they are in their 30s and 40s but both have been paying into a pension fund since they were 18, been able to move house and get savings a decade ahead of their friends.

I can think of quite a few of their friends who are have jobs not based on their degree and are in minimum wage work. Hopefully the job market will change for them.

I must admit I do roll my eyes when I read on mn that people are putting money away for their kids uni when the child is still young . Its like it is a forgone conclusion that they will be going.

I do think university is absolutely the right place and is obviously essential as a pathway to certain jobs,of course it is. However for a long time it was sold as the next step after A levels when clearly it is not for every body.

Have you ever typed DH, DS, DD, DMIL or similar? Because they are really popular on this site.
I agree OP, somewhere in the annals of time one PM had the mantra ‘education, education, education’ and a goal to get 50% of students to university. I think we are now suffering the consequences, degrees that don’t actually involve developing the skills needed for the workplace, a ‘loan’ system that is essentially a personal education tax and graduates who are fighting over meagre job pickings.
I wholeheartedly encourage students to consider degree apprenticeships after A-levels.

Get over yourself @MajorSamanthaCarter ! YP is same as DD and DS and is used all the time on MN (opps, shame on me).
OP (there I go again), my DD (🙄) would agree with you. She’s at Durham and thinks university system is a rip off, and while she could have been interested in academia, she would not want to be within a system she fundamentally disagrees with.
But look at how the job market works these days. My cousin got a job in a graduate training scheme at Tesco and became a buyer, travelling the world. Her degree is in film and media. My son has worked in retail for five years, but because he didn’t go to university, would not get that opportunity. He could possibly work his way up in a big firm, but doesn’t get the training afforded to someone simply because they are a graduate (and it’s a myth that having a degree means you have the analytical skills, communication and capability to learn) and therefore leap frog several years.
And now so many have degrees, more employers are looking for people with masters.
When I started work in publishing back in the 1980s, I’d say less than half the journalists had degrees. They had portfolios of articles and often started on local papers. Now I bet they’d all have to have degrees.
So kids are kinda stuck. For many jobs a degree is required, any degree, even if that job could be done perfectly well by a smart 18 year old.
I’ve always advocated for vocational training from age 16, or 18, or any age really. And for firms to offer training schemes to school leavers like they used to.
My son is 23. Plenty of his schoolmates who went to university are doing ‘unskilled’ jobs like he is as they can’t find jobs in their field due to the current market. But long term they have better prospects. And many of those that have got good jobs work for their parents’ businesses!
And how does uni work as ‘life experience’ that three years actually working and living in a shared house doesn’t?

There is value in education, critical thinking etc. Why shouldn't a young person seek that?

The fact, in England, we've decided to create an environment where only the richest can afford an education is troubling.

I agree, it’s been drilled into us for so long that university is the best option that people just accept it as the default.

I’m currently contracting at a heavy industrial site. The young men here (it’s almost exclusively male) are finishing a four year apprenticeship and picking up £6000 plus a month with overtime when they complete with no debt. Plus their role is less vulnerable to AI.

Compare that to those completing a degree and getting a first job in a call centre with a mountain of debt. Unless you want to do something specific such as law or medicine or teaching, what’s the point?

I agree with this. A degree is often viewed as the standard entry qualification for lots of professional jobs by employers.

The issue is two fold. The current job market means even well educated and talented young people are not getting jobs..Plus too many young people have gone to University. The AI secure jobs include the trades yet this is disregarded by many schools and parents.

I know a lad who has a strong interest in mechanics and cars but is now on a poorly rated computer sciences degree instead of training as a mechanic. Why? The Uni pathway was straightforward...the mechanic training pathway was not sign posted. It was way easier to get onto a low entry degree course that needed bums on seats than a local mechanic training course. He's attending only a few hours a week, lives at home, will have fees debt and importantly isn't developing a work ethic.

If he drops out of the course he will feel a failure and be less motivated to get a job. If he completes the degree he will not be competitive enough to get a grad job. I think this scenario is happening to many young people.

Looked at the "moving on" list showing uni courses kids from our local school got places on this year. Gonna be a lot of out of work criminal psychologists, forensic pathologists and media experts.

YP 🙄

"Yet we all need 'the trades' at some point in our lives - several points actually."

Yes, but that doesn't mean everyone has the capacity to be a tradesperson or that you're automatically good with your hands if you're not so academic. It's not as simple as some people make out.

There aren't enough alternative paths open to them. That is why. What do you suggest they should all be doing instead?

Think about it. You're 18yo, not sure what you want to do and very few opportunities outside retail for your age. Even a lot of 21/22yo graduates are finding getting a job tough.

You have a choice.

1. Send one form to UCAS and apply to 5 places, helped by school, to put off the decision for 3-4 years. You get to move away from home and still have long holidays.
2. Apply one by one for jobs, probably need to be near home because you can't afford rent nor to buy a car. You apply for 50+ jobs to get one interview and each application is different and has to be filled out separately. Most of the jobs are minimum wage, short holidays, and not much chance of moving up the ranks or wages.

Which would you choose?

Yes, I said 'personally' because I knew it's not an opinion that everybody accepts, but it's still not an unpopular opinion.