Using AI to remove school photo watermarks

I actually can't believe you think that taking a photographers work without paying them for it isn't theft. And that you think paying someone else to do something with the photo cancels out the theft from the photographer because you've paid someone for it . There's some serious serious lack of understanding of basic ownership there.

To carry on the scarf analogy which you seem to think explains your principles perfectly, if you steal some wool, then pay your friend to knit a scarf with it, you are still a thief even though you paid for the scarf because you stole the wool to make it with. You stole from the shop and paying money to someone else doesn't cancel that out. The raw image you paid your friend to Photoshop isn't a free resource. You stole it from the photographer and paying the photo shopping friend doesn't cancel that initial theft out. You are taking someones work without paying it.

Removing watermarks is a form of theft under the copyright laws.

The photographer probably doesn’t get much if any upfront fee and relies on purchases.

Honestly, I apologize, I'm getting a rough time here but somebody did, my mistake that it was not you, I did not mean to make it a personal attack - Sorry

What you describe is theft. Would these same mums take a few items from a shop if they thought they could get away with it?

I normally don't buy as the results are worse than I could do for myself. But, new school, new photographer this time. I was pleasantly surprised that they bothered to tidy the kids and the result was noticeably professional too.

Was a digital copy worth £18? Yes. That's excellent value for a professional sitting.

I didn’t call you or your child scummy and I resent the implication that I did.

Yeah they are removing the watermarks and giving me a better picture for 1/3rd of the price, I'm not fighting you on that.

It doesn't make me a thief or my kids tainted for the fact that I can get better, and cheaper, and going down that route.

I have so many photos of my kids in uniform it's half their life really isn't it? But the idea is that 'oooh its school photos tomorrow' 'make sure your kids come in full uniform' 'mum i want my hair like this' 'ok show us your best smile'

For the photos to come out quite, meh.

I'm not gonna say it's wrong to save a ton of money on someone whos already been paid to come in and take the photos

You know if you go to a theme park and they say hey £30 for the terrible photo I took of you in the moment, but someone behind you is snapping a photo of the photo of them on the back screen?

Is that theft too?

Okay and that's fair, but my kids know I'll get the photo from my friend, they know the value of money. They have no reason to think ''mum stole that photo'' because I didn't.

It's not theft to be given something and improve it.

And it absolutely doesn't make my kids 'scummy'

I can imagine that eventually school photos may become a thing of the past; they could set up their own school backdrop and parents/kids do their own?
Here in Canada one reason for school photos is for RCMP use in case of emergency. So not sure they would be totally done away with.

Along with misuse, (and derailing the thread a little) there's the obvious point that children aren't consenting to their life being constantly and publicly broadcast. We've just started to see the effect of this now some high profile children of 2000s celebs are reaching adulthood, but there's still a generation about to get there whose parents put so many personal, emotional, medical details about them on line before they could even speak. Ugh.

Anyway this thread was an eye opener. Not least because I had no idea that people didn't believe digital media was a real "thing" you could steal! Presume they'd think that someone taking £50 out of their online bank rather than their handbag was still theft, though.

I'm so sorry that my examples have confused you further still.

"I walk into matalan, I love matalan, they put a scarf round my neck and say hey you've tried it, go pay now, you need it, - no thanks, my friend makes scarfs and the quality is much better and can provide a better scarf but thanks for the inspo."

That would be fine if you left the scarf and your friend made you a new one. But, here, your friend isn't taking a new photo are they? They're removing the watermarks from one which the photographer took. Just like ripping the tags and security label off a scarf you were never obliged to buy, and shoving it in your bag.

If you actually don't think it's stealing, experiment for you. Email the photographer and say "Hi, just wanted to say, cute picture you took of little NewName jr! I got a friend to remove the watermarks from the sample you sent and it looks great in the lounge."

I’m saying that your child will know that you haven’t bought the photo.

Your child will know that you have the photo.

It's never ok to steal from others just because you think they're too expensive.
If you think the work's good enough to steal and use that way, PAY them otherwise take your own photos.

Same with my circle of friends. And so im happy to hear it is not normal for you either, gives me hope!

I totally understand why most people were doing it a few years back, innocently because they probably didn't understand the consequences of such an action. We are armed with much better knowledge now and there isnt an excuse for it really.

Your saying because all the other kids in the class are getting their photos dropped off at school, that my kids will notice the difference?

Idk I saw earlier on you have 28 kids in your class, and my kids have 3 classes per year year R, 1, 2 - infants + nursery

Juniors 3, 4, 5, 6 - 60 kids per class

Senior school - well, there's over 1k in that school so wont bother to guess

You think 600+ kids, each parent, in the south east, can afford to buy multiple photos?

I did that for years, my kids haven't noticed since i stopped doing it - they do look for the new ones at home eventually though!

That’s not what I’m saying.

It's really thick to assume because mum can't afford £60 on photos that my kid throws litter on the ground, but okay ma'am

It becomes a part of their experience of how to behave, like everything you do. I was on a school trip once and a child finished her crisps and there the packet on the ground. When I told her to put it in the bin or back in her lunchbox she had absolutely no idea whatsoever that you just didn’t throw rubbish on the ground because nobody had ever told her. Children learn how to behave and get their values from watching the adults around them,

They know they had their photo taken at school. They know that a week later when the teacher had a pile of photos to give out at home time that they (like most children) didn’t have a photo because their grown ups didn’t pay for a photo.

But they can see their school photo is then in their house.

If someone forced a baileys shot on me and I happened to enjoy it, I'm still not obliged to buy it from them

If I liked a scarf someone put round my neck - I'm still ok to go buy it somewhere else

None of that makes sense because I wouldn't allow the sample or the scarf but, I honestly don't think those things ever happen anyway

I've never walked into a shop and had something placed over me, nor have I ever walked into a Tesco and been asked to sample baileys lmao

If I walked into a tesco and they said, here here, have baileys, ok ok you tried it so no go pay £22 for it, eh you can keep the bottle but thank you

I walk into matalan, I love matalan, they put a scarf round my neck and say hey you've tried it, go pay now, you need it, - no thanks, my friend makes scarfs and the quality is much better and can provide a better scarf but thanks for the inspo.

Does this help?

@Arabelllllllla I would add to your points that I'm not sure "most people" post pictures of their kids online. I know some people who do with no apparent restrictions, some who do only to a limited network (sorry, I don't know the proper name, but eg insta stories for a list with say 10 close friends/ family only) and some who don't at all.

But tbf lots of my friends work in either law or social/healthcare so maybe we're more careful than the general population?

You obviously have reading comprehension issues so I shouldn't be surprised that your response is as poorly formed as it is.

My first post literally says do not post your kids online on public accounts. You really shouldn't full stop either.

I actually work in AI and am trying to warn people because I know where this is going. If you dont want to listen to me knock yourself out, I am not trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. But your kids will highly likely end up in CSA imagery (yes, I've seen the terrifying stats for this) so dont be surprised when it happens, and they will be able to blame you because it will be your fault for letting it happen.

Another indicator of your inability to think critically is your misconception that because lots of people do something it is morally ethical or acceptable. Lots of people used to beat their children with belts, doesn't make it okay.

Anyway, i won't respond again because you are not worth the effort. I just hope a normal person sees what I've written and takes some food for thought.

Most parents don’t post their children online, not in my experience.

Parents are definitely pulling back from their children’s photos being used on school websites, social media and the like. A decade ago you would have probably one in a class whose photo you either couldn’t take at all or you couldn’t use for anything outside of the classroom. Now I’d say it’s about half. People are far more aware than they used to be.

A mum in one of my kids' classes said she did this on the group WhatsApp. I really, really don't want my kids' faces put through AI.

It's also blatant theft.

Etc

Yeah I'm great at reading thanks 😂
Just still trying to wrap my head around why you don't think it's stealing.
Now I see you are saying you never asked them to take a photo.

Imagine this

You go to a clothes shop. A shop assistant hands you a pretty scarf and says, try this on. You take it over to the mirror, try it on, decide you want it, and you and your friend break the security tag off it and put it in your handbag and you leave with it.

or

You go to Tesco. A lady is giving out little mini samples of baileys. She offers you one and you sip it. You and your friend go over to the aisle and grab a bottle of baileys, break the security tag off it, and put it in your bag.

You "never asked" to try on the scarf or to sample the drink. But it's obvious that if you wanted to keep it you'd have to pay. And you decided not to pay. That's stealing. I can send more examples if you need but I think it'll get boring for everyone else on the thread given that everyone else seems to understand why it's stealing.