To expect people ill with Covid stay home?

I remember it being an issue in low paid/poor conditions jobs I've had in the past, not getting paid for the first three days in care work, hospitality, cleaning etc. I was surprised when my friend who is a software developer and pretty senior told me she didn't get sick pay, only SSP, with no pay for the first three days (I think that's changed since) It came up in conversation as she was planning to leave after having her baby, and I thought she would have to go back to ensure she got her mat pay - turns out she wasn't getting any! She wasn't a freelancer/contractor or anything, she said it wasn't as unusual as you'd think in smaller tech companies.

That's the point I'm making. It was our neighbouring authority that made 'Awaab's law'

after a child died as a direct result of damp and mould in their homes, a lot of families are affected by poor nutrition due to low incomes, as well as other issues like parental mental ill health, drug use, crime and anti social behaviour affecting quality of life. Our employer has sold off many of our previous office buildings due to funding cuts, so the idea that we can get air filtration systems by being a bit assertive in supervision or to start role modelling to families wearing masks when they can't afford to put the heating on just sounds laughable, sorry.

We do try and promote health, follow good hygiene etc but it has to be at a realistic level. Our employer will let us work from home where we can, and we try our best to avoid visiting medically vulnerable people when ill unless it's an emergency, but we can't stay off/at home for the full duration of minor illness, it isn't realistic.

But £75 is all some people have to live on after paying rent etc.

Pre-retirement, I used to do some financial capability work with clients as well as welfare rights, and it was a real heart sinking moment when I came across clients who were really struggling and would still find it hard if they fed their families on nothing but economy beans on economy toast. One single parent was left with about £50pw after paying rent, council tax, utility bills etc.

Yep. And drag yourself in to work and snot over everyone.

A little shift to being less selfish where possible would be good.

Something needs to shift in our culture and society.

Agree.

Too often it is seen as somehow heroic to spread germs.

I agree with this.

Sadly they are probably at most risk due to poor living conditions impacting their health even more.

My colleagues in NHS get a lot of flak for the '3 in 12', I don't know if this is everywhere but my friend was included when she broke her ankle - at work, when a patient pushed her! I think the reason they get away with it is technically the meetings they trigger are supposed to 'support' but everyone I know in the NHS talks about it like disciplinary/performance monitoring.

Again, I'm not sure where you live or where you work, but the schools I go to have to raise money for basic materials and are usually in old buildings where there's issues trying to make them accessible or avoid overcrowding, HEPA filters aren't on the radar. The children I'm working with are victims of abuse and neglect, often living in run down, overcrowded properties, covid isn't on their radar either. When I go to their houses theres already a barrier about the fact that I'm an authority figure and turning up in a mask more commonly associated with people dealing with hazardous waste wouldn't help that relationship. I think your priorities are different to mine, and my employers. We have to pick our battles.

Yeah I don’t get sick pay as self employed. But I tell my clients when I have so much as a sniffle so they can choose to avoid me. Then I don’t get paid but I am fine with that as don’t want to make people ill.

It blows my mind that people get sick pay/ can WFH yet still drag themselves to work. Probably commuting and infecting many along the way.

Something needs to shift in our culture and society.

Does that 3 times include absence for injuries as well as illness?

I had 3 absences in a few months for a broken wrist: one on the day I spent in A&E having it x-rayed etc, a couple of days a few days later when they had to reset it under a GA, then a few months later, surgery to correct the alignment which was one unholy mess.

I also think it's tough on people with recurring conditions, like migraine.

I’m a fitness instructor (partly employed and partly self-employed). I’m also a Home Help (self-employed). There’s no sick pay for any of that (apart from SSP for my employed hours, but I’m paid hourly and it doesn’t amount to much).

If I felt ill I wouldn’t go to work because I wouldn’t feel well enough anyway- both jobs are physical so if I feel rubbish, I won’t want to work.

However if I just felt slightly ‘under the weather’ with a sniffle, I’d still go and teach fitness classes, and would tell my Home Help clients about my symptoms and let them decide if they want me to visit. I’d offer to wear a mask in their home.

You’re a teacher. It makes sense now. Probably annoyed I’m not calling you Mrs FunPartyIdeas 🙃

I’m a big fan of ventilation and I’m outside a lot. I also spend a lot of time on my own so hopefully these factors reduce my risk of getting viruses. I can’t see me wearing a mask but I respect that some people want or need to.

Thank you for your kindness. Covid is actually one thing I’m not anxious about; I think the anxiety merry-go-round is full of other contenders at the moment.

It's 'a cold' for you maybe. Meanwhile in the real world there are still people out there who can get seriously ill from it. Have some consideration for others.

Wearing a mask isnt hazmat gear dont be silly. Teach your young people that its because you value them and their health that you are wearing a mask to protect them from your infection. Or that you are wearing a mask to protect your health from their illness so you can continue to show up for them. Lead by example, they may then do the same for you. Your employer has a duty of care. As we've seen London are installing HEPA filters in schools to clean the air. Take the evidence and have an adult conversation with your employer. Be part of the solution not the problem.

Just wondering what kind of jobs people are doing where they don't get sick pay. I guess if you are a self-employed hairdresser or maybe a childminder then you won't get sick pay, but if someone came to my home to do my hair and they had Covid or a severe cold, I would be mightily pissed off and likewise if I had a child who caught something from a childminder, because ironically, childminders won't take sick children.

I don't think the public that I work with, including children and young people, would appreciate me rocking up looking like I'm wearing hazmat gear. They usually have self esteem issues as it is. I also have no control over the ventilation of the buildings I work in. I'm not sure what kind of workplace you're in that you could do all that.

2nd bullet point from bottom.

Yes.

Wear an FFP3 mask then. They won't thank you for being made ill.

@mumatlast14 Does any of the guidance advise mask use?

No, just test if ill if you want to know if covid or flu. Easy tools to help avoid catching covid, flu or colds or passing it on - good ventilation, wear an FFP3 or FFP2 mask - this is good hygiene. HEPA filters also remove viruses from the air along with pollution.
If we normalised this people would be more confident in wearing masks when necessary. Less long term sickness, less damage to the economy and lower benefits bills.

If people stayed home (where possible) when they have Covid - or any other infectious illness - then there would be less of it around, and less need to stay home …. Because you’re ill less often!!

Covid is very different to cold and flu sadly. Not just long Covid - which can be utterly debilitating and last for years - but it can also cause organ damage. Plus it’s recently been proven to cause long-term damage to people’s immune systems, so it’s likely that repeat infections are playing into the rise in lots of other illnesses.

It’s a no brainer. If you can stay home, then you should. Why risk ruining someone’s life if you can avoid it? 🤯

@LuLightFest
Nope - still going to work if I have a cold! And also setting a good example to the young people I tutor that work goes on if you are a little bit under the weather. A good work ethic is so important.
What do you do for a living? Is your time off paid?