AIBU - problems with antisemitism amongst NHS medical staff?

But its not alleged though is it 🙄

And anti Isreal/anti Zionism is not the same as antisemitism

At the risk of this thread being groundhog day, poppies are not political symbols to the majority of normal people in mainland Britain. And I bet not to a lot of people in Northern Ireland either although I don't know. We only have the view of a poster on MN to contradict that.

Anyway lets agree to disagree. I think you are veey wrong and you think I am.

I haven't read the entire thread, because Im finding it so dispiriting. I will go back over it later. For now I just want to ask WTF is going on with all these posters queueing up to dismiss a report they clearly haven't read.

I have read the Mann report. I also work in the NHS. And I have Jewish heritage. Im not going to try to prove to anyone here that the NHS has an antisemitism problem because if you dont believe Lord Mann you won't believe me.

But read the report and you will find plenty of evidence. Plus a key finding that many NHS managers dont really understand antisemitism as racism and so dont handle it as they would other forms of racism. So the report urges equal treatment, not special treatment. It is clear that people shouldn't wear badges that declare their allegiance to either side of the debate (quite right). Politics should stay outside the door.

Jewish and Muslim people often feel vulnerable when using NHS services and it's important to address that. Shame on all those on this thread who have dismissed or minimised racism in healthcare.

That's a long winded way of you trying to justify discrimination of an ethno religion. That group has a right to self determination.

Edited: deleted word.

Only an alleged genocide! So don’t worry about the thousands of deaths of Palestinians! Continue as you are

Well lots of political ideology can be justified by or connected to religion if you try hard enough. Zionism is generally considered a political nationalist movement that’s been used to justify a lot of absolutely appalling treatment of other humans.

Zionism isn't just politically driven, it's also driven by religion and a fundamental belief in self determination. To me and you, that means the right to live.

Yeah that was me. I think medical care needs to be neutral to politics, religion etc.

I don’t agree on banning just one symbol or cause, nor to I agree nhs staff must stay neutral outside their provision of health care.

i also don’t agree that support Palestine means supporting Hamas.

oh, and I 💯 believe that what Israel is doing is genocide and I vehemently oppose their actions and the political ideology of Zionism.

and finally, I am not antisemitic nor do I equate being Israeli with being Jewish. Or even actually being Israeli with necessarily supporting the actions of the Israeli government (although of course many do).

think that sums it up 😄

Once experienced some obviously singling out and Jew hate in A&E. I am not normally particularly bothered by fuckwitts but that night I was in pain and felt vulnerable so it did shake me up at the time.

Another incident I had we still are not totally sure about. My GP was away and a young lady doctor was covering for him. I went in because a condition I have was showing some new symptoms. The doctor prescribed about three different medications to held and some extra test. I started taking the new medications that night. Within about 20 minutes I was literally on the floor and my husband had to call an ambulance. It turned out one of the medications she prescribed had something in it a person with my condition should never be given. The thing is I am obviously Jewish and she was obviously of a certain other religion. I didn't accuse her afterwards of doing it deliberately. However I have wondered about it because even the nurses looking after me afterwards were shocked I had been given that drug.

No I don't think people should wear badges at work supportering any political cause etc, that goes for pretty much any job. I don't push my own views in the faces of others at work so I don't see why they think I am interested in theirs. Some people may be potentially intimidated or scared and why do that to other people, not nice.

I understand the recommendation, I just don't see it as practical in reality. People showing support for LGBT or trade unions, or BAME networks, or the armed forces networks, or flying the British flag on NHS premises are political and yet embedded into the NHS. I don't see anyone successfully managing to ban them and dissolve all staff networks and diversity initiatives all because you want to ban one specific thing and you want to ban them all in order to do so, I think it would get pushback from too many groups.

Well the person I was replying to did actually say One of the first things I said was that I agree that no political symbolism should be worn by medical or patient facing staff.

So I was agreeing with them that it would be better if that was the case.

Neutral is no visible political affiliation. Just the uniform, fail to see why that isn't practical.

This was also covered in Lord Mann's review:

Lord Mann told the BBC: "The NHS should not be a place where you bring in your views. And the stronger the views, the bigger the problem."

"An 'I support Palestine' badge, or anything like that, is a problem for some people, just in the same way as an 'I support Israel' badge is a problem for some people. Don't wear either," he added.

"If you're fearful at what they [medical professionals] are wearing as a political symbolism, then that could be dangerous in terms of health outcomes."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0plkd4wdno

Well the person I was replying to did actually say One of the first things I said was that I agree that no political symbolism should be worn by medical or patient facing staff.

So I was agreeing with them that it would be better if that was the case.

Neutral is no visible political affiliation. Just the uniform, fail to see why that isn't practical.

This was also covered in Lord Mann's review:

Lord Mann told the BBC: "The NHS should not be a place where you bring in your views. And the stronger the views, the bigger the problem."

"An 'I support Palestine' badge, or anything like that, is a problem for some people, just in the same way as an 'I support Israel' badge is a problem for some people. Don't wear either," he added.

"If you're fearful at what they [medical professionals] are wearing as a political symbolism, then that could be dangerous in terms of health outcomes."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0plkd4wdno

Why don't we all just agree that no political symbolism should be worn by medical or patient facing staff.

I want a medical professional treating me to appear neutral and just do their job. They can wear what badges they want outside of their job in the NHS.

Why don't we all just agree that no political symbolism should be worn by medical or patient facing staff.

I want a medical professional treating me to appear neutral and just do their job. They can wear what badges they want outside of their job in the NHS.

You havent asked me to think more critically though. You've just revealed that you defend the wearing of badges that frighten UK Jews. I don't think much critical thought is needed.

Anyway. Thats all.

I honestly dont know what you mean by "Israeli symbolism". Do you mean a flag? I understand that is considered a political symbol and so is banned. Ive been very clear.

What interest me is that there are people in this country who would prefer to wear a badge that scares Jews. And think thats perfectly OK. It isnt.

Ok I feel like Ive said my piece and now will leave it up to you to carry on revealing yourself without my help.