AIBU - problems with antisemitism amongst NHS medical staff?

Everything is alleged, at the moment.

No, the UN as an institution has established no such thing.

The UN has already established that it is genocide along with other international bodies. Nothing about "alleged" there.

Israel isn’t a "European colonial project". Calling it that completely ignores history and erases the over 850,000 Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews who were brutally expelled from or forced to flee Muslim-majority countries across the Middle East and North Africa after 1948.
Millions of Israelis are descendants of those indigenous Middle Eastern refugees, not Europeans.

Framing Israel as the sole aggressor when it comes to Gaza and Lebanon completely ignores the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah.
I‘m sure you’re aware of what happened on October 7th.
Do you also know that Hezbollah started firing rockets at Israel from Lebanon on October 8th and that Israel took about ten months to retaliate these attacks?
And that Hamas is up until this day refusing to disarm and surrender power?

I’ve not read the full thread now, but isn’t it OK to hold the beliefs both that Jews across the world should be able to live their lives in peace and dignity, and without discrimination; and also see Israel as failed European colonial project that has caused decades of friction in the region, and which, with political and financial support from the U.S., is increasingly aggressive towards Gaza, and Lebanon?

If anyone would care to recommend a book which gives a good historical survey of the situation, I would welcome that.

I didn't get an apology from a person on this thread who misrepresented my first post, showed a staggering amount more empathy towards a doctor that did harm to me, trying to say I hold hate for all Muslims and behaved like my feelings were not as important as an anonymous doctor whose treatment put me in hospital.

I won't hold out for that apology because since then have seen the type of posts they write and they obviously won't comphend what they did wrong judging by those posts. I mean harming Jews/zionists can never be wrong can it, free pals blah blah blah. Seriously am so grateful most mumsnetters are more empathetic and even thinking, it is just a handful that need the good old mumsnet head wobble.

Worth remembering: A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.

You are worried about assumptions more than you are worried about real people it seems

The doctor in question as I explained was a young woman of a different religion. I know what younger people are hearing on social media and from some leaders these days. AlI have first hand experience of that particular community in my area through friendships. Therefore I know the type of feelings some mostly younger people have at the moment. After what happily would I not consider if it was deliberate or accidentally malpractice. Most people would be left feeling the same given every that is currently happening and the some NHS staff have faced disaplinary for their feelings about Jews.

I deliberately in my post didn't give any revealing information about the doctor, have not stated the outcome of the investigation or what happened to her incase that is traceable online somehow.

If people really think that the Muslim bit is not relevant or should not have been implied because oh my goodness don't you dare suggest a Muslim young doctor my do a Jew some harm then quite frankly you don't comprehend what my post was saying.

I am saying because of everything going on and my previous experience before this one in A&E that this Jewish person is worried about about antisemitism in the NHS. So much in fact when this incident happened it left me worried it was deliberate. Which I think is a valid feeling what with everything that had happened to me.

I knew it was only a worry and I could be wrong so didn't make a fuss at the time. I didn't want to to put her through that accusation as well as what she is going to be investigated for incase she was innocent. I actually despite being worried about it and the harm she did do to me protected her from that line of investigation. However for some people on mumsnet because how dare I imply a Muslim could hold prejudice against a Jew and do something reckless that would affect my health.

You were the one who brought it up an an analogy.

Yes, but a different one.
My original comparison was simple: One can strongly oppose a state's government (Israel/Russia) without celebrating the slaughter of its civilian population.
That is a moral distinction, not a religious one.

Your analogy draws a parallel between the role of Orthodox Christianity in Russia and the role of Judaism in Israel. These points are not comparable though, as Russia is a multi-national federation with a secular constitution, whereas Israel is an explicitly ethno-religious nation-state.
Apart from everything else, the war between Russia and Ukraine has zero religious drivers.

Are you now suddenly claiming Israel and Jews are the same thing?

No, Israel and the global Jewish diaspora are not the same thing. But when people celebrate the mass slaughter of civilians inside the only Jewish state, one can hardly explain it away with hatred of the current government.

How do you know that they aren't? A Jewish Dr was suspended recently for anti Muslim comments, there was a British Jewish Dr who was laughing about not having killed enough children in his time in Gaza too. How would you feel as a Muslim being treated by a Dr who is openly anti Muslim or a Dr who laughs about killing Muslim children? The 'bitterness of a middle east conflicts' is unfortunately quite difficult to ignore when your caregiver in the UK may have travelled to take part.

I think it's OK to acknowledge that lots of people have cause to feel reticence about the care they may receive due to biases of caregivers. It isn't OK to blame all Muslims or all Jews or whoever for that though.

Except the solution of Israel to end their occupation which the ICJ has ruled to be illegal and stated they must withdraw to be compliant with international law?

You were the one who brought it up an an analogy.

Are you now suddenly claiming Israel and Jews are the same thing? Because you can’t have it both ways.

Do Palestinians agree this is a religious conflict, or to do with two nations and territorial sovereignty?

A lot of people believe that Palestinians have been viciously attacked and slaughtered as well. By Israel (or are you alleging by Jews? Wonder if all Jews would be comfortable with that statement), for many decades.

That analogy doesn't work. The conflict between Russia and Ukraine has nothing to do with religion. Both nations are predominantly Eastern Orthodox Christian, so why would anyone assume Russians were killed because of their faith?

The Russian Orthodox Church is a religious institution, whereas Judaism is both an ethnicity and a faith.

When someone viciously attacks and celebrates the slaughter of ordinary civilians, their hatred clearly goes far beyond a hatred of a state.

Ukrainians must have quite strong feelings towards Russia (to put it mildly), yet their military focus remains on defending their territory and striking strategic targets, rather than hunting down Russian teenagers and families.

Israel is the only Jewish state, and celebrating the deadliest attack on Jewish people since the Holocaust inherently spills into antisemitism.

The far right is though.

Jews are not creating a climate of fear for Muslims in the UK. It's synagogues and Jewish schools where people have to organise their own security.

The bitterness of middle east conflicts shouldn't be brought to the UK. That's a disaster for this country, and especially for the Jews who live here, as Muslims outnumber Jews about 12:1 at the moment and rising.

Muslims are creating a climate of fear for Jewish people? What all of them?

Is it far to say that Jews are creating a climate of fear for Muslims just because some British Jews fund terrorism, go to Gaza and slaughter Muslims etc? I mean how are Muslims supposed to know which British Jews are just back from sniping children just like theirs in Gaza or which ones are sending money for the ethnic cleansing of Muslims in the West Bank? That must be pretty scary, is it fair to blame all Jews for the actions of some though and say that Jews are creating of fear?

But if Palestinians hate Israelis (and the events of Oct 7 show that they do) then there is no hope of a one state solution. Even a two state solution is a stretch as Palestinians are likely to continue to attack a people that they hate. The hate has been building up and fermenting for many decades.

There really isn't any satisfactory solution to the conflict.

Or just to get in a last insult….

But that’s fine, luckily mumsnet is outside my work remit and doesn’t have anything to do with my professional competence.

In case you are interested, I’m unsurprised you are a lawyer, your posts and tone reflect quite a lot of lawyer stereotypes.

No I don't think so. Mainly because I don't have the time or inclination. I just didnt want to leave your post unanswered (sort of..not much of an answer obviously).

You edited to add this:

Its not "sounding more lawyerly". Its just a general approach that you can just tell.

I would be curious to understand in what way you consider my “general approach” not be that of a lawyer so you can “just” tell. If we see concluding anything here it is that you can’t “just” tell - based on someone’s religion or the way they post on mumsnet. In fact doing that is based in internal biases rather than fact. Arguably not a usual approach of an officer or the courts.

IF a crime has been committed. That’s not the same as a crime being committed because she feels it has. It sounds like splitting hairs, but it is a really important distinction, especially for the doctor who should be presumed innocent unless there is evidence- other than her religion - to the contrary. Again, a justice basic. We can’t go around assuming guilt based on religion.

Well obviously. Its MN. We aren't putting anyone on trial.

But that feeling of the victim is relevant if a crime had been committed. And she says she did feel it.

Yes assuming it was established a crime had taken place, with the relevant intent etc, then yes it would likely be a hate crime. I don’t disagree with you in that.

The problem with that is there is a lot of assumptions and no actual evidence except PP’s feeling which PP herself admitted was due only to the religion of the doctor. That was my original point, which hasn’t changed.

Well its a hypothetical isnt it. As to whether a crime occurred. Because its MN and we don't know if anything is true.

But assuming it did (the doctor was found to be guilty of trying to kill the patient for example) the victim's perception of racisim will upgrade the original crime to a hate crime. And the perpetrator will get extra time. If the victim felt it, the law says it is therefore a hate crime. Subjective rather than objective view.

Presumably you agree with me that law is open to abuse.

Its not "sounding more lawyerly". Its just a general approach that you can just tell.