To think it’s crazy that National Minimum wage is £27k

Free personal care and a reformed care service will save the NHS and local authorities a lot of money. Loads of NHS beds are blocked by people needing care, and local authorities pay private providers a small fortune. It will benefit us all.

Why would you expect to have more than "enough" as a state benefit?

You wouldn't get anything near "enough" from Universal Credit or JSA.

You are just giving more reasons why pensioners have it easier today than the pensioners of the future because as a country we will not and can not afford to roll this out into the whole of the UK and it will not be in place when millennials retire.

You’re confusing differences in devolved policy with the ability to collect national statistics.

The UK absolutely is a country. It’s a sovereign state made up of four constituent countries. Being a political union doesn’t somehow prevent it from being a country.

The fact that Scotland has different tax bands, tuition fees, laws or public services doesn’t make UK-wide statistics impossible. It makes them more important, because they allow us to compare outcomes across different parts of the UK.

By your logic, we couldn’t produce UK-wide poverty statistics because housing costs differ between London and Newcastle. We couldn’t calculate average household income because wages differ between regions. And we couldn’t produce national life expectancy figures because healthcare outcomes differ between communities.
That’s not how statistics work.

And several of your claims are misleading anyway.

• Water: Scottish households do pay for water and sewerage. Charges are generally collected through council tax bills. Not receiving a separate bill doesn’t make water free. In fact Scottish Water – Household Charges 2026/27 shows the average annual charge as being £532
• University: Free tuition for eligible Scottish students doesn’t mean Scottish millennials have no student debt. Maintenance loans still exist.
• Rail: Public ownership doesn’t automatically mean cheaper fares. You’d need actual fare comparisons to establish that.
• Dentistry: Having an NHS dental system doesn’t mean everyone can actually access an NHS dentist accepting patients. Public Health Scotland - Dental Data confirms that even though 95% of people in Scotland are registered with NHS Dental, only 61% have actually been able to access it in the last two years. But again this is irrelevant because it doesn’t tell us anything about pensioners.
• Buses: Free travel for eligible age groups is a policy difference, not evidence that UK-wide economic statistics are invalid.
• Government: Scotland has its own devolved government, but it is also governed by the UK Parliament on reserved matters. Westminster decisions absolutely affect Scotland.

Most importantly, UK-wide statistics aren’t automatically English statistics just because England has the largest population. They’re weighted to reflect the population being measured.
You could potentially legitimately argue that UK averages conceal important differences between Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England. That’s why regional and national breakdowns exist.
But claiming UK-wide statistics are impossible because Scotland has different policies is simply a misunderstanding of what an average is.

You’re arguing against the existence of national statistics, not demonstrating that any of the figures are wrong.

But ALL of that stuff you mention is irrelevant because it literally is about policies from one part of the UK to the next…that doesn’t tell us anything about what we have been discussing, and it doesn’t change anything about financial statistics for pensioners.

I can do this with you as many times as you want, but it won’t change the facts about pensioners. And referring to them as ‘my stats’ is quite misleading given they are published facts that are provided by governments and financial think tanks.

You should watch the free Rebel Finance School course on Youtube, which talks about how to achieve financial freedom (over time, of course, not overnight) and explains how to get out of debt.

I genuinely don't think that's the case. When I split up from my x-DH, initially I was working part time and receiving a top up from UC. We were absolutely struggling, hand to mouth style. Then a rare opportunity came up in my workplace to go full time, and I increased my salary by 40% (initially I was on a contract that's 60% of a full time place, so I went up to full time). I lost UC, but gained so much more in salary.

It was before I retired. Probably a bit more now. I was the EMA coordinator for a while in my job. It’s a great thing imo. Without it my son’s partner could never had stayed on at school, then got her degree. Her parents were on benefits. Skint. But still wanted the best for their children. They got it 😊.

Blast from the past EMA. Is the amount still £10-£30 depending on what your parents earn? I remember it in college days.

Just to add. We still have EMA and footwear and clothing grants

Also free personal care for the elderly. That the UK parliament want to introduce. We have had it since devolution.

UK wide statistics can't really exist. For the simple reason it would be impossible.

Take Scotland.

Different tax bands.

No right to buy.

Any millennial won't have the massive uni debts English ones have. Free tuition.

No one pays for water. It's nationalised. So no water bills.

Scottish child payment. For millennial parents if they have low income.

Nationalised rail. So cheaper fares.

Every under 22 and over 60 gets free buses.

Everyone gets free prescriptions.

Everyone has access to an NHS dentist.

We have Scottish Law.

We have Scottish Education. Completely separate and different to England.

Neither Labour or Tories govern Scotland.

The UK is not a country. It's a political union.

So your stats are skewed to England.

You’re confusing devolution with sovereignty. The UK is a sovereign country consisting of four constituent countries. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have varying devolved powers, while England is governed directly by the UK Parliament in many areas.

That doesn’t make UK-wide statistics England-only. If the research explicitly covers the United Kingdom, it includes all four countries, regardless of their devolved arrangements.

The research papers I gave you were whole of the UK based, and honestly the difference in the devolved powers is irrelevant as we are looking at the wealth and distribution, not laws and regulations, so it’s not only incorrect but irrelevant.

At least we are getting somewhere and you are recognising that the UK is a country now though…onwards and upwards

However, three countries have their own parliaments, economies and laws. One doesn't. So your link is only for the one that doesn't have autonomy. England.

Oh dear…

The UK is a sovereign country. Its full name is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It consists of four constituent countries:

• England
• Scotland
• Wales
• Northern Ireland

Are you trying to be funny? Seriously though? Because if you are I won’t bother to reply…I genuinely just thought you were oblivious to pensioner wealth because you lived in a bubble, now I’m not so sure you aren’t having a laugh at my expense.

The UK isn't a country.

A Growing Divide: Two Decades of Intergenerational Unfairness – Intergenerational Foundation
Under Key findings, it states:

• Pensioner poverty fell from 28% in 1995 to 16% in 2023.
• Child poverty remained at 30%, nearly double the pensioner rate.

Again this is research for the UK.

You can also look at this source too:
Joseph Rowntree Foundation’s UK poverty statistics .

Why is it expected that the spend be higher on the group with the most? Its not as if children can change their circumstances either. And they tend to have no assets or income at all.

So we'll have to look at findings about pensioners living in poverty as well then.

The problem in UK (and much across developed West) is not wages as such, but high house prices. We can't keep increasing NMW and giving ever more protection to employees to a point when hiring cannot be sustained. We need to ensure that housing prices are of such level that a person on NMW can afford some basic accommodation in all areas of the country. The only way of doing this in UK is massive program of social housebuilding and this should be flats, not private homes.

Because the primary focus of this research is those age groups. There will be other studies looking at the contrast between other age groups. One study can’t look at everything.

I opened a few links.

It's interesting that they compare age group situation now and 10-20 years ago but don't do the same analysis for other age groups. Talking about Resolutionfoundation here. The same real decline is seen across all generations, not just 30-34 yo. This "omission" discredits the entire research.

And surely the spend on pensioners (the group which has little if any capacity to change their circumstances once they reach this stage of life) is expected to be higher than on younger people who are supposed to be net contributors, generally healthier and should provide for own children?

You saw what you wanted to see then…

1. The IFS document it refers to the UK 15 times. When you open it, click on the website address bar, type UK and then it shows ‘on this page’ you can then locate each one.

For reference:
The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) is the UK's leading independent, non-profit microeconomic research institute based in Bloomsbury, London.

Their research is UK based.

• The title of the second document is:

• The 3rd document (which covers points 3/4/5) is titled: A growing divide: Two decades of intergenerational unfairness

First paragraph in the introduction before even opening the document says:
IF’s latest report provides a comprehensive assessment of how conditions for young people in the UK have evolved over the past two decades.

You’re making yourself look silly

From an employer’s perspective, it’s hard to justify paying that much for someone’s first job when AI can do some of the work for less. It’s awful that £27k still isn’t enough to live on, but the minimum wage should protect people from exploitation—not price inexperienced workers out of a job. If employers can’t make the numbers work, some people will miss out on that first job and end up relying on benefits instead.
Minimum wages have risen at roughly the pace other wages should have risen, but that doesn’t automatically make those increases affordable for every employer.

Read them. No country mentioned 👍

Just to say spending on pensioners outside of pensions is largely on care for those with no savings and little income. Most other age related services for older people funded by government have closed.

Nah no offense taken, why would I take offense to something you said to someone else. Or that was said online by someone I do not know 🤷‍♀️

Life is too short to be upset my strangers, especially those who reply to their own comments with a comment saying they shouldn’t be on mumsnet