To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

Children may not change but technology and scientific knowledge does. I haven't found the current generation of mother's to be sneery. But I have experienced a lot of that from the previous generations of mothers. My MIL has a lot to say about rear facing car seats for example. It wouldn't be a all suitable to whip one out from the 90s or just not use one at all for our 2 year old (I definitely didn't have one at that age!). She was also horrified by me breastfeeding until 2, waiting until 6 months to introduce solids, that we haven't left him to cry etc. I would love to take advice from her but it sometimes feels like our experiences are worlds apart. And the judgement can be quite cruel.

I'm trying to remember if kids were just left to have accidents in my day (70's and 80's). I remember classmates having accidents in junior school, they'd have to go to the office for dry clothes.

"Research by early years organizations and reports highlighted by The Guardian show that roughly one in four (26%) reception pupils are not toilet trained, with rates rising as high as 36% in certain regions like the North-East. 1]"

@Rubydobydo I think many people do think there should be separate units for dc who need greater attention to access school. For example, nurture groups and even special schools. EPs can certainly identify needs earlier than 4. Schools in some areas are overwhelmed and they need a far more creative approach to accommodate dc. Intimate care is a special need. It just doesn’t affect learning in many cases but it might be a symptom of learning difficulties,

For the children who can't cope in mainstream, absolutely.

That isn't automatically going to be the case just because a child needs intimate care though.

Again I’ll say something provocatively. Is the mixing of SEN and non-SEN children not the base issue?
It seems the two groups, especially the more ‘severe’ SEN have vastly different needs.
Wouldn’t it be fairer to have some separation?

I've been a Y5/6 teacher for 13 years, and I absolutely love it, but if I was ever put in Reception I'd be gone in days. Possibly hours. I don't know how you guys do it, but I'm glad you do!

My son doesn't have a learning disability either.

This is so true. I also reckon its actually easier doing it with an 18-24 month old who is less stubborn, than with a 3 year old. So people delay because their 2 year old "isnt showing signs of readiness" and then kind of miss the window & struggle with a stubborn 3 year old who cant be bothered.

I dont think nurseries help, they often quickly ask you to put children back in nappies if they arent rock solid on it, or expect 2 year olds to wipe themselves totally independently. Wereas my eastern european childminder firmly approved of me doing it at 2 & supported it, and had reasonable expectations that 2 year olds need prompting & help.

OK, well your post kind of illustates what I was talking about earlier on.
To me, it's completely obvious in every walk of life that someone who has beem through something before you have -especially something as complex as patenting - might be of use to you but time and time again you see that wealth of experience is brushed aside unceremoniously by new mothers who are convinced they know it all, armed with the latest parenting fad and the dreaded 'research' (which changes all the time anyway)
Children are children. They don't change. On that basis, I woukd say my 30+ years of parenting DOES give me ' some sort of amazing advantage and knowledge' that might just be of much use to you as it was to me
Can you imsgine stsrting a new job and telling someone who had been doing it fir 30 years that they were doing it all wrong and they knew nothing? Maybe that's what happens now.
I cannot imagine 'advice that is so outdated that it made my ears hurt to listen to it' but i suppose if you are so convinced you know it all and no one's help is of value to you, crack on.
One last thing - advice and best practice change all the time. On day, your daughter will be sneering at the baby-led regime so fashionsble now and tell you you know nothing and you will feel exactly the same as us 'older mothers' feel now.

I agree to an extent, but you have to be strong minded and do what’s right. I’ve always told mine that I don’t care what others are doing. My children have always been expected to sit at the table to eat, lower voices, take shoes off indoors, say please and thank you, put dirty clothes in the laundry basket, tidy up toys before bed, have limited screen time, etc. It’s basic stuff, and needs to be expected from the off so it becomes routine without conflict. Parents need to direct rather than ask- they should be unapologetically in charge!

I am not sure it is appropriate for mine either. He doesn't have a learning disability and is in fact incredibly bright so even the SENCO don't think it is appropriate for him. He probably wouldn't get into one anyway.

My son isn't even the most severely autistic kid in reception and he isn't mild but it will get worse if the government gets to do what it wants re SEND.

So what did people do before surestart?,,,,,,

Having brought up three children, I know that teaching children independent skills made my life easier in the longer run, and was definitely worth the short term effort.

I do remember worrying before I started toilet training the eldest, because there wasn’t a lot of information or support - not that I could find, anyway - and I wanted more pointers and ways to avoid pitfalls. But in the end, we muddled through, and he seemed to survive my lack of skill!

There does seem to be more information and support now, and that can only be a good thing.

My son will very likely always need intimate care. He's currently in Year 6 and will be starting mainstream secondary school next September.

He has no chance of a specialist school and it wouldn't be appropriate for him anyway for several reasons.

I totally agree with this, but I do think parents are getting mixed messages.

They've also been told to distrust the help or advice their own parents or elders might give. As likely to be out of date or even dangerous or abusive.

And the worst I think is they aren't learning or being given any tools. Don't spank, don't yell, don't let them cry, don't make them sit at table till they eat, don't ... And every solution given instead tends to be massively time consuming.

There also isn't much social help given with boundaries. It's hard for parents to do it alone but now we are told every family makes their own decisions and that's ok. You can't say to your kid, no you need to go to bed at 8 by yourself, like your friends all will be.

@VioletsTale Some schools have care assistants. It’s a bit like the reverse of a care home! I don’t believe teachers do change nappies but TAs do. Schools need care assistants. Maybe shared on a peripatetic basis.

I think the scale of the problem is probably anecdotal but there’s no one saying potty training is where it was even 25 years ago. It’s very much parental attitude and gentle parenting as well as lazy parenting.

The village notion was outdated decades ago. Who lived with family all around and other willing helpers even in the 60s? We didn’t and I don’t know anyone who did.

Spot on about parenting tasks being over-complicated by so much conflicting ‘expert’ advice.

Is this not just putting support back in place that used to be offered by health vistors and was cut? Or sure start?

I think that "experts" who push their shit books and courses are part of the issue. They over complicate everything.

Regardless i don't think that it is terrible if parents need support. Parenting doesn't come naturally to everyone.

• Lazy / selfish parenting
• busy parents both working
• no village to help so do things that are easy
• being mollly coddled themselves so do it to their kids
• spoilt brat syndrome
• keeping up with social media trends and spending time and money on that instead
• too much ‘self care’ and ‘me time’
• way too much screen time - kids and parents

all of the above and so much more

Sorry app lagged, will try and get it removed

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What scale? What exact numbers are we talking about here?

Or residentials where half the class has a bug/food poisoning and it’s the middle of the night , all hands on deck.