To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

Because, with the exception of disabilities which have been discussed at length, parents have been abdicating their responsibility to get their children ready for school; in particular in respect to toilet training, which should have been done years before.

This is the type of stupidity that got parents so bloody lazy in the first place. Sure Start wasn’t always around and, strangely enough, parents were able to potty train WITHOUT any help before the nambyamby Labour government started treating everyone like senseless idiots who couldn’t think of do for themselves.

Could sending a leaflet guide and offering support be classed as pulling someone up? I think that is a stretch. We shall have to agree to disagree.

I did wonder if my posts were really that confusing/badly expressed.

Or sometimes, just realising/it being acknowledged that no you don’t have to wait until they’re ready and that yes you did left it too late , so get on with it whatever it takes.

Like I said, there’s a mum seeking advice right now about potty training. Dozens of poster telling her he’s just not ready yet and to leave it/wait.

What adjective would you use for "can't be bothered until someone pulls you up for not doing it" then?

It was clear before that you were choosing to miss the pps point. You can't just choose whichever adjective from your list, they mean different things. As I said before I'm not saying that there isn't an issue but I think to call it laziness is wrong. If it were just laziness the scheme wouldn't have been so successful.

@CuteOrangeElephant I don’t know what the HVs do now. I’ve heard restricted to most vulnerable parents dc and presumably that links in with SS involvement.

I'll say it then.
Having a toilet trained child is clearly much easier than faffing with nappies.
Putting in the effort to get your child to that point is a lot more faff than continuing with nappies.
So many take the lazier/easier/'kinder'/'more gentle'/'child-led option. Choose which adjective you like.
Clearer now?7

There's levels of laziness though.

Im lazy with cleaning. Sometimes I need the incentive of someone coming round to actually do a proper full clean.
Others would be even lazier and not even bother cleaning if someone was coming round.

Same with potty training. You've got the first type who cba but once they know someone is 'on to you' so to speak (ie giving you a leaflet or inviting you to a session) they'll do it. Others won't no matter what - but I'd assume hope they're rarer.

Yes exactly. And there is absolutely no shame in needing some help like some posters here seem to be saying. Leaflets and drop-in sessions are a great idea, especially because they are backed up by stats.

The health visiting service was non-existent in my area, DD never had a two year check.

@CuteOrangeElephant I could not quite understand why DD1 wasn’t interested. Weed when she got off the potty! I mended it to GP when he did development check - yes back in the day! He said just stop. Go back to nappies. Don’t talk about it. Give it 8 weeks and start again. And - it worked. Perfect within a week. Just before 3rd birthday but you and me tried. We did not give up.

Lazy and feckless parents would not go to drop in sessions.

I would have loved that when I was potty training my eldest DD. We really tried, started when she was 2, even bought a book on potty training. At one point she just refused to sit on the potty. She would have a meltdown every time I tried to get her to go on it. Tried many different things, reward charts, special books, special underwear, different potties. In the end we had to abandon it because we were getting nowhere and it was only getting worse.

After a long break she did pick it up before she went to school.

There's definitely something going wrong. I agree that we expect too little from toddlers and it stunts development.

The scheme which is now being rolled out to other cities provided booklets with confirmation of school place along with them being in libraries, nurseries etc and offered drop in sessions for extra help. And as a result the number of children who started school not potty trained dropped by 43%.

I'm not arguing that something hasn't gone wrong but just to say lazy parenting doesn't seem right to me. If it were lazy parenting then the scheme surely would have just been a failure. The problem seems more complex.

@HedgerowDThey become accustomed to changing nappies. It’s habitual and they persuade themselves dc cannot do it. Don’t forget some dc are behind in language and are poor communicators. They are not being taught to speak or say what they need so it’s just a circle of continuing slow development. It’s also definitely the case that leaflets do next to nothing. A GP visit, that lots of dc do, might. Dr to refer these dc on to the HV might help and at least have a conversation about what the proposed potty training timetable is.

Obviously. She's saying its less work to have a toilet trained child than to have to regularly change nappies. None of the posters who say its because of lazy parents can answer why making more work for yourself is lazy nor why outcomes improve when drop in and booklets are provided (surely lazy parents don't bother reading or attending these).

That's why we toilet train them.

Changing a nappy. Finding a proper space to change them, take nappy off , wipe, change the nappy, dispose of the nappy. It’s a lot of faff with a bigger child(faffy enough with a baby too, but needs must). Never mind the smell, smears etc. It literally is a lot more work than your kid going to the toilet by themselves.

What does?

There’s a potty training thread running currently. Mum struggling, kid nearly 3, she wants to sort it. Most of the replies? “He’s not ready yet”. “Just wait until he’s ready”. 🙄

Let’s keep pretending that that doesn’t happen though, right?

How is using nappies lazier than using the toilet , especially after a certain age? It literally creates more work and faff.

But how would putting out a booklet on how to potty train your child and running health visitor drop in sessions combat parental laziness? Doesn't the success of the pilots suggest a level of willingness plus a knowledge gap?

Parents laziness.

If its such a simple thing then why do you think it's gotten worse and also why do you think the pilot areas providing support and a "how to" guide helped?

It’s up to the parents. Jesus. It’s a simple thing.