To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

Yes, there are quite a few additional expenses, but personal care items really are top of the list. We can't keep ignoring the social and environmental cost of disposable nappies.

Asda are currently knocking out Ninjamas (4-7 years) at £3.50 for 10. 35 pence per day for convenience is probably a cost most people would absorb. Make that £1.40 a day and they'll probably stop and think. £1.40 x 28 = £39.20 out of the 4 weekly DLA, leaving plenty for other essentials.

I had to get my son trained to get him in to half day nursery at 2.5. At that point he had no diagnosis but I just knew I needed a break so I got on with it and did it in two weeks. Nothing like the determination of desperation!
He ended up relapsing after six months but we muddled through with trainer pants until reception when it became clear he was behind his peers generally and needed specialist provision (school suggestion, to be fair they’d tried lots of things).
at 4 he qualified for free nappies so we had those till 7 for nights which helped and this is the key thing - you couldn’t buy nappies to fit a 3-4 year old in the UK then, but you could in most of Europe.

It's laziness. My daughter is 18 and an apprentice at a nursery. She sees lazy parents every day. On one memorable occasion she handed a clean and dry toddler off to her Father at pick up time; Dad takes the child out to the car; child unluckily does a poo while being strapped into the car. Dad brings her back into the nursery, which is reasonable you would think as there would obviously be a space for him to quickly change her before heading home. Yeah, no. The Dad physically hands his child back to my daughter who is still helping with pick ups, and asks her to change the nappy! My daughter was so shocked she just did it rather than argue with this lazy, useless excuse for a father.
When she told me later I could not believe that an adult would do this and apparently think it was normal and feel no shame. This nursery is in an expensive area with very high house prices and excellent schools and the parents are almost all well off. It's just shocking imo.

I do. But it is far from the only additional expense as I'm sure you know with your own son.

And you don't receive DLA for this additional expense?

As I've said above, diagnosed disability is always on the medical files. But disability doesn't automatically mean can't be potty trained. My own son has severe neurological / physical disabilities. His progress with potty training was monitored by a health visitor because it was important that any further issues would be picked up. I mean what if a kid has got celiacs and this never gets investigated because they're already in the bucket of 'disabled explains problems with potty training'.

Not in my experience. In my experience, families receive some supplies but nowhere near enough and you are then left to cover the rest.

This has been covered at length in the thread

What about children with moderate to severe diagnosed disabilities? Is that lazy parenting?

No it wouldn't. Families with SEND (and I know because kiddo who's now 33 had significant SEND) always did receive supplies based on need free of charge. What it would do is unpick whether SEND is the primary cause of incontinence and determine whether it's a medical or social issue. As per the TV the other day, mothers were saying they kept their infant in nappies because, for example, they didn't want them to have an accident in their car seat as that was difficult to clean (social issue).

It would also make things much more expensive for families of children with SEND.

Something strange that I noticed was that disposable nappies cost virtually the same now as they did 35 years ago.

I was watching a lady on TV, who has led this 'groundbreaking' campaign, and she was saying that you can start sitting a kid on a pot as soon as they are comfortable to do so. We used to know this. But we also used to wash nappies because disposables were really expensive. Wanting to get away from that nappy bucket was my motivation. Breakfast > potty sit > nappy on, lunch > potty sit > nappy on, dinner > potty sit > nappy on. Eventually, nappy didn't need to go on. Lots of precise praise, combined with knowing what it meant to feel clean (terry towelling squares definitely left them sitting in their own soggy / saggy mess) meant they virtually potty trained themselves. They made choices. All 3 of them. Including the severely disabled one who had to crawl commando style to his pot and indicate that he wanted to be lifted.

But there again, we lived in a community where neighbours would talk to each other and support each each other. And we had an actual health visitor who would regularly pop round and offer useful advice. We also had cheap as chips nursery care and pre-school every morning (or afternoon if that was your preference) once kiddos got to the age of 3.

In other words, people are like water. If you give them convenient and inexpensive solutions, i.e. low cost disposables, then they'll naturally flow towards that useage. Quadruple the price of nappies, so that they're in line with inflation over the last 35 years, and I'm willing to bet the potty training crisis will disappear.

I agree that the waiting until ready message was really harmful. I know I got a lot of raised eyebrows when I admitted I'd started training not because I thought my child was especially ready but because I was getting so repulsed by changing soiled nappies it was time for me.

I really think we need a serious debate about inclusion in education. One real downside that has been brought up on this thread is that it does blur the boundaries of what's acceptable for school age children. The pressure to train before school or else they will have to be kept at home did work really well for most people.

The messaging has changed though - that’s my point - the wait until they’re ready brigade are what parents are hearing.

None of which in new or unique to today's toddlers.
A bit of judgement might have stopped us getting into this mess in the first place.

I can’t believe how judgemental people are being on this thread, there is a massive issue with people being told to wait until the kid is ready (frequently on this site) and instead of celebrating that there is work to combat this to get kids potty trained, people are attacking the parents again.

Also, it can be awful potty training a kid, so much mess, and can go on for months if they withhold poo or don’t want to use toilets out and about. Now you absolutely have to work through that as a parent and that is your job, but having a support group to vent seems only to the good.

(Nb no skin in this game, my childminder considered my DD late to potty train, think she was 3 as I waited for warmer weather, but we managed it in a weekend in the end for the day, night nappies were more of a battle)

Toilet training doesn't change.

Right. Well we'll end it there then. Fresh pair of eyes is one thing, but I can't imsgine being so arrogant thst i would brush aside experience as outdated and irrelevant but there is the problem and one of the reasons we have infants in nappies.

Is also the case that sometimes after 30 years you can be so stuck in your routines and refuse to learn anything new that a 20yo wirh fresh eyes and ideas can indeed turn up and rock the workplace, just saying! Age and irrelevant/outdated experience dont have to be praised just because you like to preach.

Maybe. It could also be that parents expect nurseries to do it?

Because it’s easier than toilet training!

That isn't going to happen though because it costs money.

Perhaps AI could train them

yes it’s become so ridiculous

I hate lazy parents. So I just got a job, and yesterday one of the kids we look after kept getting put back in nappies even tho hes fully potty trained and can tell us when he needs to go. The mom yells at my coworker and now me for potty training him

@CywIarBachthis is insane. It’s also a dignity issue for the kids: imagine sitting in your own poo when you’ve the skills to use the toilet independently, but your parents never taught you?!

I really feel for you in your job, also.