To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

My friends daughter was only just trained by the start of reception.

The reason was that my friend absolutely believed that her daughter would do it herself when she was ready. This was bollocks.

She was an absolute state about her starting without being toilet trained, but just couldn’t see that it was something she had to initiate and lead as a parent. She did eventually clock on and persisted, and Lo and behold it only took a few weeks.

I think the idea of child led everything is so damaging.

Maternity leave is up to a year now so I suspect there are far fewer babies in nursery at a few months old than there used to be.

Do you think there's a fundamental difference between parents today and parents of years gone by? Or are you more persuaded by cause and effect?

more excuses

It’s actually the other way round. Nursery attending kids are more likely to be potty trained.

Stop making excuses!

I think though that it wasn’t simply a question of parental laziness in the past - with cloth nappies you can feel that you’re wet and it’s much easier for small children to make the connection between a wet nappy being uncomfortable and choosing to use the potty.

I have no answers for the other things though! We’re a bookish family so always had them around and our children saw us reading our own books when we could snatch a rare moment. And I’m very sensitive so never allowed my children to be rude to me. In turn they are very sensitive and are very well-behaved without me having had to do much!

Is it because so many children are in nursery from a few months old? Not blaming nurseries but its not 1:1 care and teaching these things as they happen
I know many people do this because both working, grandparents still working, cant afford to live near family who could help, cant not work because of the interest rates.

Having it all? Doing it all more like.

I'm sure there are useless/lazy parents out there, but there are also lots of loving parents trying their best.
I do think the swing from authoritarian parenting towards child-led/gentle has maybe gone too far.
There are lots of young parents now who are scared of making their children do anything or upsetting them in case it causes trauma.
Read any thread here about tooth brushing or potty training and there will be some loud voices shouting that brushing your child's teeth without consent or pushing potty training when the child isn't interested is storing up long term problems.
In the 90s it was easier to parent as there was an awful less judgement, much less information or methods, and some things - like tooth brushing or potty training or a good night's sleep was just seen as a universal good and your job as a parent was just to get it done. It didn't need to be gentle, playful or child led.

Yes, of course, but non-disposable nappies add more layers to the process - changing them plus soaking them, washing them and drying them - so it's more of a chore.

Agreed. It's the same naivety that thinks that the only thing missing in the homes of some families is money. Hence the belief that all the Govt needs to do is give these families more money and they will miraculously turn into fabulous parents.
As you say, it does no one any good to shy away from acknowledging tis, but then that is part of the bigger picture of how we got to the stage of four-year-olds wearing nappies.

It's the fragmentation and increasing isolation of society. In the not too distant past, people used to actually spend time with friends/family pretty much every day. They shared experiences and offered support face to face. Now all most people do is go home and stare at screens. It's limiting our ability to both complete basic care of ourselves and other and also removing any support networks that used to exist. I fully believe it's the effects of tech.

@Katypp Yes and so did we and we managed to do it, but we had a really good childminder. A poorly staffed nursery may be different. If you are both working FT you can do all you can, but if the nursery don't support it it will never work.

I also have a severe SEN child in special school who may always be incontinent and the school say he still isn't ready to be toilet trained. Trust me, wiping a primary aged child's arse six times a day is something I'd train away if I could. I think it is a bit more complicated than shit parenting, but it will be in some cases.

When I was in primary 40 years ago I sat next to a kid who was still sitting himself in Y3.

What rubbish. Surestart wasn't a thing when mine were babies and we used disposable nappies i managed to toilet train 3 of them. And they all could clean their teeth and use cutlery.

In what world is mango a basic fruit? I don't think I had any til I was in my twenties and I am not that old!

People have lost their connections and communities. They no longer have aunts and grandparents living closer by who have btdt

People no longer trust themself. You see it on here where parents all for advice in supporting their child with reading and writing and then end up saying they'll leave it to the school in case they get something wrong.

We'll have govt agencies teaching our children how to walk next.

I worked with a woman whose daughter started reception in nappies. The child didn't have SEN and the parents were both well-educated and otherwise very responsible. The reason the daughter wasn't trained was that the dad was very fussy and was worried about the child having accidents on the carpet. The mum thought it was easier to leave her in nappies. Unbelievable isn't it? She was trained in no time at school when she found out what she was meant to do.

Agree. Usually with a side helping of 'but we know better now' 😡

And? There are in fact good parents and crap parents, same as in any field. This pretence that all parents are doing their best and that is good enough is not helping anyine, let alone their children.

Well society has changed a lot in 2 generations tbf. I dont think a lot of parents today emulate parenting as practiced by their parents - they are told it's practically criminal and everything should be child-centred and child-led.

This is not the first generation of children with two full-time working parents. I am 59 and I worked full-time, as did every one of my friends and family.

No that is not the role of state school, the role of a school is to provide education, not social engineering, or make up for crap parenting

Yes indeed. look at the date!

I think it's important to note that some of these kids are in nursery five days a week whilst the parents work. What is going on there?

It’s ridiculous but sadly it needs to be done, I know of two nine year old twins with no health/neurological issues that still wear nappies and won’t go to the toilet. Sometimes it’s just bad parenting and this will hopefully help! It should also help children that do have underlying issues get help sooner.