To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

I think it was because I was honest that I wasn't 100% sure about readiness but I was really starting to hate the nappies. My friends weren't too bad, just raised eyebrows but I know that some mum cliques are a lot more judgy.

Surely child-led just means you make sure your child is ready - which could be 2, 2.5, 18 months, whatever it is. How could that lead to raised eyebrows?

I tend to avoid "mum tribes" or "mum cliques" or "mummy friend" type situations, so perhaps that has saved me from these eyebrows. I don't have time to worry about what "the other mums" are doing.

Why worry about what others think. Yes, I understand being part of a supportive group but if they don’t support your choices on how you raise your child, then just don’t discuss things they’d likely disagree with.
Be strong in decisions in your life, bugger others.

No I also had the raised eyebrows about not being child-led when I chose to train at 2 because I'd had enough of nappy changing. This does happen, especially now that mums often get into tribal like groups with similar views it can feel awkward to go against a norm.

The faux "I feel so uncomfortable speaking to other parents about potty training...". Sure you do.

Why don't you do what you think is best and allow other mothers to do the same? We don't all want to spend the best part of a year "potty training" when it can take a matter of days if you just take the pressure of everyone in the household for a few extra months. You may well find you're still right here when your child is 3 and then other mummies who got there sooner (like me) might feel ever so uncomfortable talking to you.

I really think it depends on the nursery though. Friend of mine potty trained her 18mo and her nursery wouldn't take him to the toilet while he was still in the baby room, so he had to wear pull ups to nursery until he moved rooms.

Mine have said they'll be supportive but it's actually my main worry with potty training, I feel like I need some solid evidence/success that DS is fully asking for and using the potty in nappy free time at home before even asking nursery to do the same with him. And he's only there 2 days pw. Really feel for full time working parents, there's the pressure of needing to take annual leave to get it done in that time (I also can't choose when I take mine), you could ask nursery/childminder to support but child will surely not get the same 1-1 attention with multiple clients to watch. Anecdotally, I've had multiple friends have nurseries tell them to wait to potty train, after the age they actually wanted to start it.

Is there any suggestion that it’s the children of working parents who are starting school in nappies? Most of those children would be in nursery, as my DGC were, and the nurseries supported the parents when they began toilet training.

But they probably didn’t have both parents commuting and working full time hours wit toddlers in nursery until 6pm

About the readiness thing. Parents have always looked for readiness - age, between 1.5 and 2.5, average development - able to understand simple instructions, some developing speech, having some dry spells between nappies

Somehow, advice turned this around and I think people think ‘readiness’ means a child will suddenly know how and when to go to the loo. The message that we as parents actually have to teach the child this and yes, it can be frustrating but we need to train them has been lost

i find the added disability discussion insulting - a child going to school with SEND will have been flagged - drs, nursery, playgroup, hv. I don’t know a single parent with a child who isnt hitting milestones that just sits back and ignore it. The majority of parents will have looked for help and advice. The children arriving at school still using nappies and no history of any send, diagnosed or undiagnosed - I’m sorry, but these children have been failed. Children with additional needs have always existed in mainstream and those children have always been accepted and catered for. The amount of 4-5 year old in nappies is new. Children haven’t changed - shite parenting has

Really, wow I didn't realise this.
I used cloth nappies (DD now 8, so not long ago) but had no idea that this is what people did. Even on the occasions that I put her in disposables (holidays) I still changed her as soon as I realised she'd had a wee. Surely leaving them in wet nappies increases the chances of UTIs.

Sorry? Where did you hear sneering?

I say that to people all the time, this is where he's at right now but we are still using nappies and we'll see. And I know at least one friend and my grandma who think kids should be potty trained and done by 19mo so have worried the gentle easing in isn't the right thing either.

Sounds perfectly fine

They "expected" potty training at 2 four years ago too. You will be hearing the same guidance as the parents you feel uncomfortable speaking to.

Let's see if your child actually potty trains by 2 before you start sneering too heavily.

The vast majority of parents are likely doing their best and following the most up to date guidance available. I'm not sure why that offends you so much. You're right that research is ongoing and guidance will no doubt be updated - I hope when I'm an "older mother" that I will be kind to the next generation of new parents and will accept that they probably don't want to hear advice from decades earlier.

For what it's worth, I potty trained at around 2.5 years old. I looked for signs of "readiness" including staying dry for periods of time and the ability to communicate well enough. My children potty trained within a few days so I considered it very successful.

I can hand on heart say that I took what I believed was the best approach, although I can't say I particularly followed any books or websites. Could I have started earlier? Probably. Did that feel like the right thing to do at the time? No.

I also work full time, as does my husband, for those who choose to make things like this the fault of working parents.

Yes 👏🏼 no idea if what I'm doing is right but started my 19mo on potty part time at 12mo and have been doing chunks of nappy free time at home over the last month or so. Actually feels uncomfortable discussing it with most other parents, especially if they had kids around 4/5+ years ago, as so many of these waited until 3 at least and until they showed "signs of readiness". So it feels like I'm either doing something wrong or implicitly criticising just by doing something different.

We asked our HV at the one year check and she said they expect potty training at 2 now.

Ah yes ... the much-loved by MNetters 'research' and 'we know better now'.
The thing is, research changes. As we 'older mothers' know.

We certainly have knowledge now that some kids need a bit or lot more time. So yeah, unless you are stuck in Victorian era, it does change.

I know my dgs is potty trained, he is not even 2 and my dd works, he has always been sat on a potty since he was a baby and she tended to use washables

I think so many things can be true at the same time. Waiting until a child is ‘ready’ CAN be good. My daughter was 3 when she was ready and never had an accident from the moment she decided to use the toilet (apart from one memorable bout of noro!) my son just would not, could not get it. We tried so many times, over and over. Stopping and starting. I am a sahm so was there doing everything I could but nothing clicked for him. One day at 3.5 he just got it. Both were late by many standards but I had a more positive experience overall as neither wet themselves or had accidents at pre school. I wasn’t lazy, I tried earlier with both but neither managed despite my efforts. Some children are ready much earlier and can do it! It’s a skill but also your body has to tell you when you need to go and if that message isn’t there, it’s less potty training and more just luck that your child manages to be on the toilet when they need to pee!
I don’t think teachers and TAs should be changing nappies. At all. I say that as a mother of a disabled child with autism and as an ex teacher. It is not their job and it is not their responsibility. The gov telling us to be inclusive doesn’t stop that being a ridiculous situation for teaching staff to be in. The problem is that there is no solution. Care assistants should be doing those intimate jobs but the gov won’t fund them. The children need an education and teaching staff need a job where they aren’t dealing with nappies but how to reconcile the two, I have no idea.

The majority of children are still starting school potty trained.

No, of course interventions which also punish families of disabled children shouldn't be considered.

The overwhelming philosophy seems to be to use a nappy until it is “full”. Children are being taught that sitting in waste is normal. It is hardly surprising that potty training is difficult.

People need to go back to changing when a child pees.

We're back into 'yes but' territory again.
So you are saying that interventions to get parentsto potty train their children should not be considered because it might affect a small % of children who can't be potty trained?

I don't know why you're directing that last bit at me.

It doesn’t , however the advice and support did. How many times does it need to be repeated. For years, any parent that was worried potty training wasn’t going well was told to wait until they’re ready. A poster was being told that just yesterday!

I personally experienced that when I asked my HV for advice and she said it would be pointless to keep trying because her speech was so delayed. They also equated ability to speak with understanding. Good thing I didn’t follow the advice of the professionals then , eh? Otherwise I would’ve been the shitty, lazy parent with a 4 yo in nappies.

Didn't you say that your sons personal care supplies were free?

I don't think parents of disabled children should be financially penalised because some parents don't potty train their children.