To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

Over 15 years ago, I was praised by the Reception TA about my son's dining habits. He was a young 4, the youngest in his Reception class with already showing SEN traits, which in a school that mostly supported middle-class academic children, was causing a few issues. He was able to use cutlery, and push peas on to the back of his fork. He ate well including salad and vegetables. He did this because I (and his dad) had taught him. She was surprised enough to mention it - I don't know if her judgment about SEN was the reason for her surprise. The only reason I am posting is that even 15 years ago reception age children were not being shown by their (academic, professional, prosperous) parents how to eat properly. So it isn't surprising to me that this is still a problem.

At what point do things like this become neglect though? It’s all very well papering over the cracks but what is really happening at home and why isn’t that being dealt with.

I have a friend who is head of foundation at a primary school. As a senior leader in the school one of her now main jobs is to get kids out of nappies. She does well with them, gets them dry they go home at half term and come back pissing themselves.

I agree with this completely.

There are loads of parents who are loving, do their best, yes they make mistakes and have bad days, we all do, but overall they know it's their responsibility to raise their kids right. Then there are full on useless, abusive, neglectful parents who shouldn't have been allowed to have kids at all. And obviously a whole range in between.

But there's a massive culture of "parenting is hard, woe is me" and it's infuriating. Oh it's just a snapshot, oh you don't know how their day is going, maybe there's Sen, what if they're poor, you don't know real tiredness unless xyz...

Piss off mate, I've got an autistic son whose record for being awake is 2am till 9pm, we both work (albeit we've taken "lower" jobs to fit around his needs, money is tight but at least we're staying sane!) he was potty trained at 2, he's almost 7 now and doesn't have a tablet, we eat at the table most nights, we're firm but gentle - he thrives off routine and structure but he's amazing, we do Lego together, parks in all weathers, reading for god knows how long as it helps him wind down, we watch films together.

I know this seems like I'm being smug or whatever, I'm really not. It's depressing getting called a "perfect parent" for just doing the fucking basics.

They do. The parental attitude or response when a teacher 'has a quick word' can tell you volumes.

I honestly think teachers are able to discern quite quickly if you are a decent parent, even when they don’t get things on a set timeline. So in that case I certainly wouldn’t beat yourself up.

Bring back terry nappies! Back in the early 70s when our two were in nappies, once they were walking they couldn't wait to get out of the wet, saggy things into proper underwear and both willing let themselves be potty-trained at 18 months. Modern disposables are just too comfortable and convenient, so the incentive to stop using them isn't there.

This

My ds was the same. He just didn't seem to be able to grasp potty training. It was such a struggle and I felt like a terrible parent. It turns out he is autistic but I didn't know at the time. Dd came along after him and it was like day and night, she just got it. There was no 'training' really.

I don't think that suddenly a lot of parents have just said fuck it, won't bother potty training little Johnny. Something is obviously going seriously wrong somewhere in society for this to be such an issue.

I'm in Ireland where there is 2 free years of preschool from the age of 2.5. Most providers won't allow children to start if the are still in nappies so the culture here is very much toilet trained by the September that they would be starting preschool unless there are SEN involved.

As well as those physical needs, many are coming in well below the expected level of development in their language and social skills, so more interventions are needed, on top of the personal care. There are not enough hours in the day and it really shouldn't be on the teachers head when those children are not meeting standardised targets in July!

The only thing I'm smug about is that I only had to deal with shitty nappies for 12 months!!!

She didn't learn it via 'language' though, she learnt it way earlier than that. She was placed on a potty at regular intervals throughout the day when she was most likely to wee or poo (first thing in the morning for wees, after food for poos, and developed an association between the potty and toileting.

Read up on elimination communication, they start from birth in many african countries - this didn't work for us as DD was born in the depths of winter and always out and about in multiple layers in a sling and then later a back carrier.

There is no other developmental milestone where we intentionally hold our baby/ children back artifcially, 'until they are ready'!

You don't need signs or language to potty train. If you start really early, and I mean early, it becomes a habit to go at fixed times of the day, and the habit evolves into "real" continence.

As adults we pretty much go to a schedule. This can be learned. We all go to the loo first thing in the morning, last thing at night, and before leaving the house ...... Toileting is as much habit as feeling or communicating need.

This. Nowadays with both parents working, the norm is for one parent to take annual leave to do potty training because a weekend usually isn't enough. If this isn't successful, the parent then has to take annual leave again a few months later to try again. It also requires the nursery to support the efforts once they're back at nursery because 5 days at home potty training often doesn't mean they are yet fully potty trained.

Who mentioned being jealous? Those are your words sunshine. It seems you do have some deep rooted issues regarding potty training and I’m not talking about your SEN child and haven’t mentioned him since my first reply to you. I’m unsure why you think it’s so easy to potty train, yet took so long to potty train your NT child.
If you want to see everyone else who has managed as 'lucky', again that’s your prerogative. I wasn’t ’lucky' and unfortunately, a stranger on the internet who struggled with it won’t change my mind on that.

Unbelievable isn’t it?! Can’t be bothered to read with their child!

You can be academic and sen.

One child I potty trained at 2.5 - very bright, chatty, seemingly NT child to everyone else. Had up to 8 accidents a day until year 2. Wasn't in nappies but getting any help for them was none existent. I went to the health visitor, GP and ended up paying privately for bladder tests. Nothing wrong. Diagnosed ND at 9.

Help is not forthcoming for bladder or bowel issues in children, you cannot get a referral for love nor money until they are 7 and even older for night time. What are people meant to do if they can't afford private? The health visitors give advice on potty training but if you've already done that and exhausted the options and your GP won't refer you, you're stuck.

In complete contrast, I did wait until 3 for second child and they were dry day and night within 2 days.

To be fair I haven't heard many say they started at five months. It came across as a bit smug. 🤷

I am glad your child with limited speech was potty trained quickly but does she have autism as well? I agree it is possible to potty train if limited language but do find it frustrating that then means all children with SEN and non verbal can do it. My son seems to understand wee goes in the toilet but can't seem to get him to actually do it.

This kind of attitude doesn't help either.

It might not work for you but it worked for them and they're sharing in case anyone else wants to try. Why is that a bad thing?

With the correct very very careful of me finding the right professionals this child overcame all eating and speaking issues and thrived in school. Now is a super model looking young lady with a great career.

all this....my child is bilingual and has muscles not working properly without visual deformity and spoke very unclear ...had all kinds of speech and eating issues. Never had any diagnosis and was on the SEN register for a while even though they lied to me she was not, because the child is very academic also. Was potty trained but teeny tiny a bit later. A real beauty. To all the haters, shove it down your ugly arse.

Why is it so hard for you to grasp that some are lucky and their children take to it fine so it happens quickly and with no trouble? I have potty trained a NT child unless you think I am jealous because of my autistic one so weird comment there?

I don't need a medal or sarcasm, what is needed is for Health visitors and social media to stop pushing the line that kids need developed language and 'signs that they are ready' before trying, then when it doesn't work the government judging parents mums for their kids not being potty trained by school start age.

My DD had a significant speech delay/ disorder, put this wasn't an issue because it wasn't even apparent at 5 months.

I read up lots before DD was born (I was off sick with HG so had time on my hands) and historically and globally the late potty training currently trending in the UK is a MASSIVE outlier, it's also not good for kids as it increases risks of UTIs, and historically they killed!!

I agree that parents need to teach their children basic life skills like potty training etc. but if your child is in nursery 50hrs a week and you only really get to spend quality time with them at the weekend (when you’re also squeezing all the other million of other jobs in) then when do parents potty train them? Especially if they have limited annual leave. I’m not excusing the late potty training but I do think we need to look at the wider picture and whether the way our society is now with parents working full time, adult children having to move away from home towns and wider family to work etc is having impacts on child rearing and whether this is sustainable.