To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

No, someone sitting on their phone tapping into AI and Google are not the same as having an actual conversation with someone whose job it is to know about this stuff and to support families going through it. Googling information is not the same as being supported. If these things are seen as synonymous then we have lost something.

Of course there will be people who don't engage, and their children are the reason free nursery hours were extended. But it's a vicious spiral. The less support there is, the more vanishingly rare it gets to actually talk to someone about your toddler, the more people will drop off engagement and that is not all on them, it's on how small the crumbs are that are being offered.

It started around about the time people stopped thinking "am I in a good position to raise a child?" and started taking more of a "having a child is my god given right" approach

Its because everyone uses the Internet as a parenting guide as they have the no one tells me what to do with my kid attitude so it means they are reading pages and pages off information about how you don't do it until the child is ready and then will be encouraged by multiple idiots on forums telling them its fine as their kid is 7 and still in nappies.

I think the pps who say we should bring back shame are referring to the parents not the children.

I notice there have been a few commemts along the lines of young parents not being guided by THEIR parents, but if MN is typical it seems to me that young parents don't want guidence anymore. They seem more interested in keeping their parents st arms' length and criticizing everything they suggest, 'gently explaining' that everything they did was wrong 'because we know better now'.
It's the same with health visitors. Most weeks there is a thread about something a health visitor has said or done that the poster has taken umbridge over and the concensus is always to show thm the door as they don't know anything. Unlike the poster, who has been a parent for two weeks and is of course an expert
We have no respect for professionals and no respect for experience and this is where we end up.

Or peer pressure. I think if my kids had turned up at our small village school unable to do these basics (without sen needs) then we would have been gossiped about. And it would be embarrassing for the parents.

Yeah I agree they’re too good - kids don’t even feel wet and uncomfortable and are happy running around in a wet nappy now. We used reusables and my kids were very enthusiastic to potty train (as was I to save on the laundry).

It’s because there was a lot of strange advice floating around about potty training. I trained both of mine before they were two and got a LOT of criticism from my peers for it, like I was being too pushy and damaging them in some way!

The ones we have now are very different to the early versions.

Disposable nappies have been commonly available for 40 years. It’s not disposable nappies.

Some parents are fucking useless and need to be shamed. Being a parent does not mean giving birth and then expecting the government to do everything else. There needs to be adverts on TV and elsewhere giving out this message. "Put your phone down and start raising your child properly".

But it would need to be the right attention and support given to potty training, and I think this is where it is going wrong.

The advice currently is leave them in nappies until 2+ when they can fully communicate there need to wee/poo. But by this stage they have normalised toileting in nappies and need to totally unlearn it.

We need to go back to how it was with cloth nappies where both child and parent where incentivised to potty train early. Child because cloth nappies feel heavy and damp, so they 'know' what is going on. Parents because cloth nappies are hard work, so balanced against early potty training, the early potty training is by far the easy option.

Parents need to be sitting babies on potty's as soon as they can sit up, timing it right to build association and routine, forget 'language' and 'readiness'. Seperate day and night (night is hormonal -some kids are bed wetters, others aren't, it's genetic).

Potty training support will only work if it is the right support.

It's a similar picture in children's mental health services. Parents not seemingly able or willing to try and contain their children's anxiety,looking for a ND diagnosis. Even looking for medications as a quick fix. It's going to be an interesting 🤔 workforce in the future

Not really, no. There are thousands of videos out there from educators, there's comments in this thread from people who have experienced it themselves. So either they're all lying/insane or you're underestimating the problem.

Thatcher, Thatcher, the milk snatcher!

Probably because it’s getting worse every year!

Oh yes let’s blame the Tories. Not the feckless can’t be arsed parents.

When I went to infants school in 70’s we had visiting dentist, eye check, hearing check, weight, nit nurse and all vaccines. We had milk and old fashioned school dinner. The teachers lined us up to visit loo and to make sure we washed our hands. We had a toothbrush at school and were given tablets to chew which turned your teeth red if you hadn’t brushed properly. It seems highly interventionalist now but should we go back to those days? I’m at a loss to know why so many children are unready for school nowadays. Maybe the same attention and support that’s given to breastfeeding should be given to potty training?

When mine were little (17 and 27 now) there was a weekly baby group at the village hall. The health visitor was there so you could just drop in and chat to her.
You didn't need to make an appointment. You didn't need to wait for your official developmental check.
You could see other parents (usually Mums).
It's gone now.
All this chipping away at services that support parents has an impact.

I think parents managed to potty train their own children before surestart. Let’s stop blaming politicians and start recognizing that some parents are not parenting anymore.

Social services are so over stretched that (at least in my area) they can only really take action once it becomes 'risk to life'.

Until then, school is the only option to help.

I clicked on this thread because today somebody asked how I potty trained my two. Quite honestly I couldn’t remember! Each stage seems hard but then you move on and forget.

I do remember taking a change of clothes whenever we went out, buying cute cartoon character underwear that would be a pity to get wet and keeping nappies at night until about 3yo. Apart from that, plenty of encouragement (saying “psssst” gets them going!), regular trips to the potty (so you can check what they’ve done) or the booster seat and reading a book to them “one page one push” for doing a poo.
Both were clean and dry by day in the summer before they went to playschool. Who wants a cold wet sponge between your legs when you’re trying to explore?

But please don’t say we need to bring back shame! DD’s playschool had a volunteer pipì lady (!) who would jolly them off to the bathroom if they asked or had an accident.
Early days, we saw a little boy hysterically begging her not to tell his mother he’d dirtied himself. “Of course I won’t tell her!” she said, hanging the plastic bag of clothes on his hook. Obviously that mother had tried shaming tactics…

We have teeth brushing in our school too.
Quite a few in nappies. TAs do this. Teachers obviously don't do that as we can't leave the class.

Sorry, that sounded really negative. It works both ways.

If the parent is unbothered and says something like, so what you going to do about it? - that tells you a lot.

Similarly if a parent is asking follow up questions and how can they help - that also tells you a lot (more positive!).

Did this trend start with the availability of pull-ups? I decided not to use these and toilet training was SOOO hard. The worst thing ever, mess and accidents and wet floors, but at least they were dry and clean in about six weeks. I was advised not to make things too comfortable for them, and I suspect that this is what pull-ups do, and it drags on, to reception and pre-school for the unfortunate teachers to deal with.

My friend and my sister in law were reception teachers until they retired last year, and from what they've said, this is definitely an issue.
It's the 'they'll teach them that (potty training/manners/dressing themselves/eating properly) at school' attitude of far too many parents these days.
That, entitlement, and being glued to their phones every waking hour.