To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

Are children with SEN an exception?

I can accept it maybe isn't more common than not, but exception seems too strong a term these days.

YABU because a lot of these new parents weren't taught these lessons themselves. So this is the next generation of kids from parents who simply have never been taught how to parent.

This topic always gets me a bit puzzled. I live outside the UK and children start compulsory schooling at 3 (or before as the year is based on calendar year so as long as you turn three before December you start in September). It is very very unusual for children to not be toilet trained by this age. Schools are supposed to take children even if they are not toilet trained but in practice they will often refuse them and there seems to be a social shame motivator to have your child not ready for school. It does indicate that there is not a physiological reason children can’t be ready. 2 parent working families are also common here so it’s not time either.

I would like to add to my previous comment. My children were nineties babies and most of us used disposable nappies. The advice then was that girls were ready for toilet training around their second birthday and boys around 2 1/2. They had to be toilet trained by the time they went to playgroup or nursery. My oldest child is autistic, which was not very well known in the mid-nineties and I was horrified that it took him so long to train but he was dry day and night just before his third birthday. The other two were more or less trained as expected. My daughter was ready before she was two but we had a long haul trip to visit family on the other side of the world at that time so waited until just after her second birthday. My point is that it is not the nappies but laziness in not getting on with this very important life skill.

My kids were all potty trained at age 2 but one of them took significantly longer than the others. It was awful. For some reason (bloody stubbornness!) she wasn't getting it, until one day it just clicked. But she was my first and I'd built myself up to it only taking three days (thanks Oh Crap 🙄), so I was stressed about it taking "too long."

My point is that if there had been a potty training service to go to for advice, I would absolutely have used it, and that definitely doesn't indicate that I couldn't be bothered as a parent or that I thought it was anyone else's job, just that I could have used some help (or just a firm older mum telling me to chill out!).

i think so much of it is just not wanting to do the hard bits and being told that that’s ok. Everything is so child led now. I feel like that about ‘safe foods’ - my daughter is autistic and has safe foods but I see so many parents argue that their child will only eat nuggets or crisps etc and I think but you had to be giving those things to them regularly in the first place for that to have happened? I know a 2 year old who will only eat crisps and the HV said fed is best, at least she’s eating etc but I just can’t believe a 1 year old was given crisps in the first place, and enough to develop a taste for them. There is no accountability for it. I’m not saying my children eat perfect diets and I’m sorry if saying children not recognising a mango was shocking to me but it was. The way some of the children reacted to normal fruit and vegetables was incredible. Not knowing what a pear was, not wanting to touch a raspberry because it was weird etc. I think both parents working has had a huge impact, and the rise of cheap poor quality food. With reading so many of the children love being listened to. I volunteer to listen and they literally bloom when reading and so many say their parents never bother. Part of that could be tiredness/no time but a bigger concern to me is not valuing reading or seeing the benefit in it so not prioritising it. If they see it as a chore, children pick up on it.

Yes, my eldest was born in 1992 and started the nursery attached to the school, in the school year he turned 4.

Any NT children who were unable to use the toilet independently were simply not allowed to start until they could.

And both sessions were full to capacity.

I agree with this.

Also would support banning disposable nappies except for disabilities.

When I saw the news report I was embarrassed for the mum having her photo shared nationally and her proudly announcing she uses the potty training services. WTAF!

I remember my mother told me that kids (my generation) used to have to be potty trained before nursery would take them at 3.

Yes, lazy parenting is on the rise!

@WouldRatherBeOnaBeach That has been government policy since the 80s. Lots of special schools closed. This lot just doubled down on it. Back in the 80s parents hated dc being segregated. Now they want it.

Schools have quite a bit of money. They have vast management layers. Strip that back and the executive head salaries and there’s money for TAs. It’s choice.

I'm glad the NHS has changed its advice to a more sensible approach-an approach that many of us knew was always the correct one.

I predict that over the next 15 years, a lot of "advice" will change, to reflect the advice given in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and maybe the early 1980s.

This can only be a good thing.

We will know it has happened, when a poster comes along to ask for advice about what she can do about her five year old spitting at and kicking his parents and the first reply doesn't say "Is he ND?" "Does he have a PDA profile?" but rather, "Get a grip on him and start by smacking his naughty bottom."

I think that part of the problem is the state taking over more and more of what was once parents' role. Breakfast clubs, free school dinners for everyone, teachers to do toothbrushing, sex ed, citizenship... all these things were once the preserve of parents. No wonder some of today's parents think that it's down to the school to do the sometimes boring and tedious task of potty training.

Wait a minute!!!

Wasn’t it the government that said all the children with additional needs should be going to mainstream schools despite their issues???

Sure, the government have cashed in by not funding more schools for those with additional needs, but did they really not think this through???? No extra helpers in the classrooms, no extra TA’s. They just expect the teachers to deal with it.

Interesting that the media choose to demonise the parents rather than doing a decent report on the ever increasing levels of children being diagnosed with autism among other things, and the fact that these kids are being forced into mainstream schools despite their additional needs!!

The media are as bad as the government.
It’s shocking that people are falling for the warped story though!

IMO parents are entirely to blame. Not the government. It is not the governments job to potty train your kids, or to teach them to eat using cutlery, to read books, or to say please and thank you. That is YOUR job as a parent. If you aren't prepared to parent your kids, don't have them. End of,

I was in hospital with acute myloid leukaemia. My dh toilet trained our 2 year old daughter in 9 days. He said it was hard work but better than changing nappies. He certainly shocked me, he is usually crap at stuff like that, but me in my place, haha. He still goes on about it today , 18 years later...

I’ve had Brownies (7-10) who haven’t been able to sit at a table and use a knife and fork. Even for something simple like sausage and mash.

And of course, there’s the more obvious point that cloth nappies actually allow the child to feel the wetness!
Single use nappies do not.
Those of us who use cloth nappies tend to potty train earlier and often do day and night in one go too.

Single use are also terrible for the environment- and full of chemicals. They are designed to be something that needs to be bought on repeat and keep the child in them for longer.

Not sure about the ‘sick of washing’ comment. My nappies are beautiful, I shall miss not washing them and seeing their beautiful prints when we are finally done with them.

Elephant in the room is disabilities and rising levels of autism and other issues that may be a cause of some of the cases in question. My children have all been in cloth nappies but my one who took the longest to train has turned out to be diagnosed with autism, and I don’t think that’s a coincidence!

How common is this though? Surely this has to be a very small minority. I can’t imagine kids not knowing how you would read a book even if they haven’t grown up in a household with any.

This is ridiculous nonsense. Generations of parents toilet trained their children years before school age, taught them how to dress themselves, and to use cutlery amongst other things before Surestart was even an idea on a drawing board. Today’s parents have more help and resources at their fingertips than ever before yet children in general are far more helpless and immature than ever before, too. When will people return to taking responsibility for themselves?

I also think that a four year old who has no disabilities and who refuses to use the toilet should be gently "shamed" ie told that they're too old and only babies use nappies.

But even when the child finds it funny to be pooing their pants, the mother doesn't tell them off/tell them it's disgusting

So they think it's funny and acceptable

I actually genuinely can’t tell if this is a joke or not.

This is so weird. In the 90s we used to get kids potty trained for three so they could start at playgroups (unless SEND). It all seems to have gone backwards.

Makes me wonder if some parents are contributing towards putting themselves into poverty by paying for nappies and pull-ups for years on end that they wouldn't need if only they'd potty trained their DC.

I was able to potty train my child easily, and he is super fit and healthy, tonnes of exercise, competitive sport age 7. Can I brush his teeth? Absolutely not. He had autism and whilst he is high functioning, he hates the taste of toothpaste (we have tried dozens) and will only brush with water. When I try to help him he would bite the toothbrush. It was a huge battle every day. He is better now but had to have two teeth removed. Trust me, I felt shame. I still do. Appreciate there is an element of ND behaviour at play here though

“Unlike the poster, who has been a parent for two weeks and is of course an expert”

Well, I was certainly an expert on babies from my family and how skinny we all were. The HV had me in a panic about DC1 and my mother just kept saying that I had been exactly the same and she wasn’t in the least bit worried. The HV didn’t want to hear it and kept pushing me to give formula. The DOCTOR asked how much breast milk I got when I pumped and I told her. She was shocked: “But that’s not enough!” I pointed out that the amount of milk extracted by a pump wasn’t the same as the amount that a baby got out and she said, “What makes you think that?” It wasn’t actually a question.

So perhaps in some cases an engaged new mother might in fact be an expert ;-)

I’m clearly still seething about that, but I agree with your general points!