To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

Just about everyone on this thread has been quite clear that we are not talking about disabled or autistic children here. We're talking about children who have no reason to be still in nappies other than patental inertia.
I don't know why the thread has been disrailed by patents taking the hump over criticism that was not aimed at them and was clearly stated so.

Well the same as any other single working parent? Even if you can't take leave the toddler is still either in a childcare setting or at home with the parent, so potty training can of course still happen with good communication between the parent and the setting.

I read that thread and the poster's earlier threads on the subject and can't believe that mum's cba attitude and the excuses she's made. Even now, with her 4.5 year old at school she's not making any effort, the school has to change her child and she's not making any effort at home to teach her - it was too much work for her to even walk with her dd to the bathroom last week so she changed her in the living room. The laziness of some parents is shocking. I feel sorry for the teachers and teaching assistants that have to deal with these sort of parents.

Most of the problems are selfish parenting -
in the nineties, nappies only went up to size 5-6, no nappies for bigger children after about 3 years old. Disabled children needed bigger nappies but could only 3-5 per day from NHS. Now nappies go up bigger to allow for later training. NT parents with NT children assume they can just wait and take advantage

Same with disabled spaces on buses, disabled people campaigned hard - now the selfish parents are taking those spaces and refusing to fold buggies or move

Children had to be toilet trained to attend playgroup at 2.5. Rightly so, ND children were exempt but then selfish parents jumped on the bandwagon and it then it had to be open to everyone

Yes, parents work but this is been a long time and not too recent. Everyone gets a minimum level of annual leave - forego the holiday, spend a week per parent to toilet train your child. Two will prob be enough for the majority of children

Then you have the screen issues added into the mix, parent and child not interacting.

Children need to be taught many skills, most don't happen through just development. Screens are ruining our children but lazy parents just want an 'easy life'

I absolutely can believe it.If you've never seen a book before, how would you know how to use one?

I have not written one word where I have criticised parents of children of profound disabilities like your nephew and it has nothing to do with the discussion. I knew someone of a similar age to me who could not control her bladder because she had spina bifida. This was her only symptom of the condition and it took years to realise what the problem was. Eventually, pioneering major surgery that has since become routine for this condition, cured it. There have always been outliers. However, there is a world of difference between your nephew, my son and the lady I mentioned, all of whom have significant disabilities, and the children and parents under discussion here. You must have noticed how many parents use a disability, particularly self-diagnosed autism as an excuse for bad behaviour and not meeting societal norms. My biggest bugbear is "he's a little bit autistic," usually said with the MN tinkly laugh. No, he isn't. He is either autistic or he isn't; he cannot be "a little bit autistic." It is easy to jump on the disabilities bandwagon but disabilities cannot account for 25% of four-year-olds still being in nappies.

When exactly do you expect single working mothers on zero-hours contracts to potty train their children? Around two-thirds of single parents work, and 36% of single-parent families have no savings. Gingerbread’s 2020 research also found that single parents were twice as likely to be on zero-hours contracts as other family types. Taking time off isn’t always something they can afford.

I’m saying this as a mother who found it easy to potty train my daughter when she turned two in my circumstances. But just because I managed it doesn’t mean everyone has the same circumstances. I can understand why some mothers struggle.

You have missed the point. If teachers wish to criticise parents, their own standards need to be exemplary.

This is true but I would say that autistic children have been particularly poorly served by the advice to "wait for signs of readiness" before training as they often need longer to train due to bowel issues and problems with proprioception and sensory issues amd also because they are generally more rigid in their behaviours and find it harder to "unlearn" things.

You think this only applies to poor parents? Your post stinks of snobbery.

Just because you managed to with your autistic child doesn't mean it will be the same for other children who are the same. My profoundly autistic nephew is still in nappies at eight.

If these children have been with childminders/at nurseries because both parents work, questions surely have to be asked about the quality of the childcare.

Our DC are grown up enough for one to have a DC. Only a few months old but already read to daily.

When our DC were at primary there was a Blair initiative at getting children to eat nicely at the table. There posters around the school about holding knives and forks and properly placing them on the plate when finished. They were incorrect. It was a school in a very nice area, where parents were well educated. We hooted.

I would quite like to point out that a lack of speech isn't always due to lack of reading to them or speaking to them. Even if it isn't autism some children just don't talk.

@Strawberrryfields Of course times have changed but the gender difference is still valid. Girls are generally more mature in many ways than boys and especially when it comes to toilet training. Special needs are an aspect but a lot of people are using them as an excuse. Yes, I had struggles in this area with my oldest son but I peresevered and he is significantly disabled with his autism. Many parents give up too quickly now and claim "lack of readiness." I think a lot of the problems are to do with the fact that societal shame is no longer around. Not all children have the physical maturity for toilet training at the recommended ages but the vast majority do and I think there are more lazy parents in this area than there used to be.

😀
It depends on the area or even particular schools but it’s an issue in schools, to varying extents.
Children might not be in full on nappies but wetting or worse soling themselves regularly means they aren’t toilet trained. As a reception teacher I can tell you out of 30 there will be at least 4/5 children we have each year who have regular accidents . in schools in some areas it will be far higher.

A lot of children aren’t used to trying foods so lunchtimes are difficult.
Children spill often because they aren’t used to using an open cup or cutlery
Children who don’t know how to read a book or if they do haven’t got the focus to look through it on their own
Children who have glasses but won’t wear them because their parents forget to bring them and/or they don’t like making their child wear them
Children in reception who can’t pull the arms out of their coat so stand there not able to put their coat on
Children crying because they aren’t used to being told no (no exaggeration)
Children who don’t know how to play as they don’t play with toys (one parent told me he’s too old for toys now - he was 5!) they just go on screens
Children who can’t occupy themselves or go a minute without interrupting because they are used to being constantly entertained and listened to

The list goes on!

I don’t think it was unreasonable for you to delay in those circumstances. My point is that sometimes parents delay potty training for what they consider to be perfectly valid reasons - as you did. I therefore don’t think it’s fair to conclude that every parent whose child isn’t potty trained by 2.5 is lazy.

Your own experience with your son should tell you that difficulties with potty training are not necessarily because the parents couldn’t be bothered.

You also mention the advice at the time was based on ages and gender rather than the child’s ‘readiness’. You followed the advice of the time, more recent advice has spoken about ‘readiness’ so perhaps parents with young children today have felt they’re doing the right thing by following advice. In addition, modern parents are actually bombarded with advice - but not always of good quality or from those who are qualified to give it.

It’s a different landscape to the 90s, the priorities and expectations of parents have shifted massively. In both positive and negative ways.

Yes there will be some parents who are lazy or disinterested, there always has been, and that’s awful but I don’t think that’s the whole picture.

The advice from our health visitor was to wait until 3. We did that with out eldest and it's turned out the advice wasn't helpful. However, it did just need a conversation as he had more understanding when he did potty train.

Our other children were 18 months and 2. Our 18 month old refused to wee in his nappy in the night so we would have to take him to the loo. That was a bit of a drag to be fair, until he could sleep through the night..
They had one accident each the first time they forgot they weren't wearing a nappy and we never had a wet bed, thankfully as we coslept and also did a lot of camping

I recognise from the descriptions here that we were very lucky. We did use cloth nappies so maybe that gave the children the feedback they needed without us having to do very much at all.

There is a world of difference between delaying it by a month or so between the ages of 22 months and two years and waiting for “readiness” at the age of three or four. Any normal, sensible parent would have done what l did. Would you have potty trained on a thirteen hour flight there and back? Your post is ridiculous.

It could be this concept of “ readiness “ ?
My grandchild ( who lives in another country so I couldn’t really be there to guide /help ) was still in daytime nappies past age 3 .
I know because we visited them and I was surprised that they were in nappies still .
My own 3 were trained round about age 2 it was a lot of work and we had some accidents which is to be expected.
The 2 younger weren’t dry at night though until older and that’s not uncommon.
I always took spare clothes with me when I left the house and knew toilets location .
BTW My youngest is SEN

You mean these people who are permanently glued to their phones have no means of finding out how to potty train. Really!!
No one told me how to do it, I think people generally pick up on the fact that you start between the ages of two and three from chats with other Mums. I understand that developmentally some will take longer. I know from my experience as a teacher there are those parents who are just too lazy to bother.

No way is this in any way down to lockdown. Most people were at home for 23 hours a day, that’s the perfect time to potty train your toddler!

I'd be interested to know what proportion of children who start school in nappies come from households with two working parents.

My child wasn't potty trained for starting reception as he has asd and was behind for every aspect of his developmental goals. That doesnt mean i didn't try, i tried my hardest to get him potty trained numerous times before starting reception he just wasnt ready, i think about half way through reception we finally had a breakthrough with it (was 10 years ago now) but his oral hygiene is perfect never had anything pr needed anything done, my dd potty trained reaply well before starting nursery, but she is overweight, not by loads but she is chunky. Shes still very active though her extra bit of weight isnt stopping her from being active or doing any activities. She also has asd and struggles to realise when she's full up.
These threads make me abut sad as you just know from the comments and the actual thread of op people will be judging when put in public with my children when they dont actually know the facts or anything about my children

DS2 was in full time school from 3yrs 8mths. He’d been potty trained for around 18mths by then. He was able to get dressed for PE and put his uniform back on, his manners were impeccable, he could eat with a knife and fork and hold his pencil correctly. Both he, and DS1, had excellent speech too. He wasn’t the only one. The school took the 12 oldest preschool aged children so they could keep a reception teacher. They all could do these things.

Now DGS is the same. He’s not yet 3, but he’s been out of nappies a year, including nights, despite having 2 parents who work. His speech and language is exceptional. He sits at the table to eat his meal, uses a knife and fork. He can hold a pencil, form the first two letters of his name. He can get undressed, take himself for a wee, he’s starting to dress himself depending on what clothes he’s wearing, and he’s able to put his coat on. He’s never, ever been put in front of a screen. He’s allowed to watch the Julia Donaldson adaptations if he’s not well or it’s raining, or he watches David Attenborough when he’s having his nails cut. He’s been read to since he was about 3 days old, and adores books, and it shows.

Parenting is bloody hard work which too many people aren’t prepared to do. We see it on here all the time. Posters calling 4 and 5yos babies, saying it’s fine for them to be having dummies and bottles at bedtime when it’s really not. We can’t keep blaming Covid, either because kids weren’t born. If people put their phones down, got their kids off screens and actually parented them, instead of expecting someone else to do it, the world would be a much better place.

I think the trend follows the decline in having a SAHP who takes a direct, developmental lead in parenting. With households now largely unable to survive on one income, parents are more tired, time-poor and stressed than ever.

That’s not necessarily an excuse. DH and I have always both worked full time. I went back full time after 6 months. And our twins were fully potty trained at 2yrs old and joined reception with all the developmental milestones reached in terms of executive function. But it was incredibly, incredibly hard. Our mental health really suffered in ensuring the kids were getting everything they required, and we both felt (still feel I think) permanently stressed in making sure it happens. And I have a bloody amazing DH who took 6 months parental leave, does all the school runs and truly takes on half the mental and physical load. Most women do not have that.

I am not surprised at all that increasing numbers of parents are really struggling.

ETA, I am also lucky enough to employ cleaner and part time nanny. That is definitely not the norm and a huge privilege.