To be appalled that parents need to be supported by government to potty train their child

But they still needed and had knowledge, but this was gained from living in large multi-generational families where they grew up seeing and helping parent younger siblings, cousins, nieces and nephews.

I have but what actual knowledge is needed to potty train?

this is something that societies have done for thousands of years

A friend’s daughter tried agency cleaning a couple of years ago. She was out working nine hours a day, but because she wasn’t paid for travelling between houses, she only got paid for five. If she was sick or took a holiday, she earned nothing, so she felt she couldn’t afford any time off. She also tried home care and another job I can’t remember, and it was much the same. She’s now teaching English in Japan.
I don’t think you realise what people in these jobs are dealing with in the UK: putting in full-time hours for part-time pay, with little security and barely any room to be ill, take a break or deal with family responsibilities.

Since seven months my grandson sits on a potty first thing, and mostly has a first poo whilst doing so. He’s 13 months now, and seems to accept it as routine.

@MeetMeOnTheCornermaybe some. But nurseries do loads to support potty training

@arlequin They cannot be refused a nursery or school place with a nappy. Of course some are in nappies!

Yes, my DD (8) had an 'atypical speech sound disorder' and slight speech delay (barely putting two words together by 2yo, and very small vocab at that stage). She had 2 years of intensive SALT (pre-school/ reception), she is NT, top in her class by a massive margin at reading, one of the top at Maths, very confident sociable and emotionally mature. When she was little she didn't want to be read to as it distressed her due to whatever was going on in her brain. I'm an older mum and had waited years to read the full collection of julia donaldson books to her, so it wasn't a lack of trying. But I did make up family photobooks every year and DD would spend ages going though them and talking about all the pictures, and the playgroup encouraged me to send the photobooks in for them to 'read' with her too.

DDs speech disorder was identical to one her great aunty had SALT for in the 1950s, therefore genetic and neurodevelopmental. The brain is still so mysterious!

My DD was a lockdown toddler, and is an only child and I experienced significant misplaced guilt that I got something wrong until MIL and her other sister started reminising about their little sister and the speech excercises they did with her and we realised the link. I also felt judged at times.

She was potty trained by 2 though - so 'language' is definetly NOT a prerequisite for potty training.

Yip!!
Well screen time is a symptom of lazy parenting so it stands to reason screen use is the tip of the iceberg.

Rtft

The private nursery near us gets a lot of pushback from parents and I wonder if they have to back off a bit as parents are paying customers. I also don’t think the nursery has high enough expectations for the children regarding personal skills.
Some children start nursery at 3 and it’s a massive uphill battle to help them if they’re already very behind.

Also the ones in full time nursery are not the ones still in nappies

But what knowledge do you actually need?

1. Starting pre-school at 3 actually means the parents are getting support with toileting and other basics
2. SEN - think it’s quite easy to jump on this. Of course there are children undiagnosed but there are also lots of families who blame everything apart from putting effort in. SEN doesn’t mean basics can’t be attempted
3. Working patents makes it harder but parents have to find the time, and many do

That doesn't make sense. If mothers on zero hours are working full time then they can afford to take time off. If they are not working full time then they don't need to take time off to potty train.

Being a single parent involves plenty of parenting and the vast majority of single mothers are fully aware of that.

I taught in a secondary in 2013 where kids living less than 60 miles from the coast hadn't seen the sea. That's about opportunity as well as parenting.

It's incomprehensible that parents aren't even thinking about teaching the absolute basics of life - basic and table manners, how to read a book (as in sit quietly, turn pages not read out the words), toilet training when no send, dressing themselves, I could go on...

They aren't.

Surestart didn't exist when I started school and any child who had turned up wearing a terry nappy would have been bullied mercilessly.

Disposable pull up pants are too comfortable for the children and to easy for the parents. They both need an incentive to bother to toilet train.

Especially if they know little about specialist provision and how getting a space is as rare as hens teeth and that's the most disabled children who desperately need specialist provision.

I'd be laughed out of the building if I suggested my son can't attend mainstream because he is incontinent. He doesn't come close to meeting any criteria where it would be considered.

It is.

A parent who has tried to potty train will have that conversation with the reception teacher before they start (either at a home visit or phone call or intake form...there is always some kind of information gathering before they start).
Edit: or explain the barriers to potty training if not tried.

A parent who cba would not. They'd just state bluntly that they're still in nappies. And probably ignore any suggestions made by the teacher.

I tell you why. When someone says it is disgraceful that a TA is changing nappies they are not exactly making parents of those ND kids feel great. Do you get what I mean? You can say they are exempt but comments like that make parents feel guilty. There have been comments that children like mine shouldn't be in mainstream if they need changing. Perhaps people should resist with these type of comments?

Absolutely!

I also wonder whether the single intake in September, meaning children who are only just 4 start school has exacerbated the not ready for school issues. My two, born in May and January started well into their 5th year, which meant they were very ready. I see children starting now at 4 and a few days (the August babies) who always seem to be trying to catch up with those who are nearly a year older.

Because it isn't always obvious at 4 if a child isn't potty trained due to a disability/autism etc or if it's because they have lazy parents.

If we are talking about banning disposable nappies, not allowing children to attend school who aren't potty trained etc it really isn't as simple as just throwing ''but not those who are disabled'' at the end of something which could really affect disabled children and their families.

It won't be true for everyone, but we had excellent support from our nursery.

I took a Friday off before I bank holiday and focused on it for four days. Then nursery supported for three days, before another day off for a long weekend. He got it in three weeks, and we needed to do more laundry whilst he was doing it, and focus on training him rather than doing whatever we wanted.

I'm not pretending it's easy, nothing is easy when you're a single parent. But whilst they might work, they will.still use childcare, which can help, and they can still take time off.

Besides, the child will HAVE TO learn at some point, and it's actually easier when they're smaller. What makes it easier for them to do it if they put it off?

Ah yes. The what about argument.
Are you suggesting that children on single mothers on 0 hours contract don't need to be toilet trained?
Assuming you think they do, the answer is you just get on with it.

Same.

Some children are more difficult and stubborn about it than others which isn’t anything new and I was told not to force it and stress the child and myself over it (easier said than done on my end). I think if the child is fine in most areas and struggling only with one or two with SEN not being a part of it, the parents are likely doing their best vs just being lazy.

My child is autistic and needs nappies with her bladder issues and I feel bad for the staff in 2 years