Why do so many mums ditch their childfree friends?

As a childfree woman, it's a no brainer that friends become far less available when they have kids. It's a no brainer that the nature and frequency of catch-ups will change. (For example, weekly catch-ups at the pub might instead become a cup of team at your friend's house every couple of months). It's also a no brainer that new mums might want to seek out the comfort and support of other new mums during those early years - and no reasonable childfree person would begrudge them that!

However, I don't think that's what the OP is talking about. I get the feeling from her posts that the OP is talking about a situation where the kids might be a bit older and more independent, but her friends still refuse to make any time for her whatsoever; instead, preferring to spend all their spare social time with 'mum friends' on the basis that the OP (and other friends without kids) simply don't fit into their lives anymore.

If that's correct (and please do correct me if I'm wrong, OP!), I totally understand how that would sting! It always hurts to be the one who is 'ditched'. And that goes both ways, for people with and without kids.

As for the "why", who really knows? As you and others have said, there can be a mentality among some women where they only see themselves as "mum", and spending time with old friends who don't have kids somehow challenges that identity?

Lack of time is often a big one, of course. And I get that "it's just easier" to get together with other friends who have kids. But even so, if you value your childfree friends, you'd find a way to make time for them every so often. Even if it's just say, a quick coffee for an hour, every few months, to keep the friendship ticking along.

I think another unspoken reason might be the level of support from the spouse/father of the kid(s). My personal experience has been that it's much easier to keep up friendships where the dad is supportive, and willing to watch the kid(s) once in a while. If the dad is not willing (or is incompetent and can't be trusted / can't cope), it's much harder. Because then my friend either has to decline invitations, or bring the kids along (which makes it harder to have a proper conversation, etc).

What should people say then when in their twenties and thirties they don’t yet have kids for whatever reason? Or before our lives with children? I was childless before I had children, as in I had no children yet. Or is there a different word to use?

Most childless people are not solely responsible for keeping a human alive with zero life skills (I’m talking about a baby here). It is 24/7 constant work. It’s exhausting beyond belief. And I say that having cared for my grandmother before I gave birth. It isn’t comparable unless the person you’re caring for sleeps with you, eats with you and requires your body for food then it just isn’t. I’m not saying that those with caring responsibilities aren’t under immense stress or lack of sleep but it is different. And this whataboutism for you about outline cases where childless people will be just as busy is silly. I’m really not one for requiring special treatment for being a mother, but you have to realise the practicalities of motherhood do sap all a woman’s energy particularly in the first few years. They also change women too. I’ve changed a lot (for better in my case) and it’s hard to relate to pre mum me.

I’ve only skimmed the thread so far, will read properly tomorrow. The one thing that bothers me is posts saying along the lines of I was childless/childfree until I had kids. No, you weren’t. And please try to understand why those terms are wrong.

In those circumstances, it’s pretty much that you hadn’t had kids yet.

Childless really relates to those who, for many reasons, are unable to have children.

Childfree is those who have actively decided that they won’t be having children.

Because they aren’t nice people really that’s why

Why on earth would someone have to " rush home for a nap"

I needed to be at home with my first child when he was due a nap, so that I could nap with him. He didn’t sleep well at night, and I relied on those day time naps to get through.

My second and third children were much better sleepers, so I was much more relaxed about naps.

Others have different reasons.

There is no right or wrong, everyone is different.

Its not really a big deal, is it, if someone wants to take their baby home for their nap?

Such judgments

Why on earth would someone have to " rush home for a nap" Though gina Ford style routines were out of fashion by now. And many mums are at work at that time and many people without kids aren't necessarily working mon to Fri so could quite easily be free.

Such assumptions

Are you available between 10am-11am on a Tuesday like the NCT group meet-ups (before everyone has to rush home for the afternoon nap)?

Talk about stating the bleeding obvious!
This thread isn't about any of that. It wasn't started by someone who has chosen to have kids, whingeing about their lot in life; it was started by a childless person whingeing about their friends with kids not wanting to spend time with them.
My point was that having had the child, you can neither expect to behave nor be expected to behave as if you didn't. That is the luxury of choice that parents don't have.

I'm the opposite of arrogant but that doesn't matter.
Where did I say that the only commitment people have in life is their children? I didn't. But what is true is that parents do have that particular obligation and childless people do not. People with kids have all sorts of other crap going on too, the same variety of crap that childless people have, but it is indesputable that if they have kids, they must look after them. It's inescapable. The OP is pitting parents against the childless and her arguments are laid out in those terms, even though, as someone who doesn't have kids herself she can't possibly understand the feeling of total obligation.

Ok please make sure to repost this when you get mums whinging.

I had 2 good friends from school until recently ( both died) and a friend from my teen social years

Plus a friend who I worked with in the late 90s.

I ve another couple of friends I met socially in the early 200s when I moved to this town and still see regularly

Most of the transient lot were aquantices rather than friends

But you DO have a choice, you just already made it, in choosing to be a parent.

What on earth are you on about?

I don’t have as much choice in how I spend my time as someone without children. That is simply a fact. Just because I chose to have children doesn’t make that any less of a fact.

See previous comments about “you’ll never know real love/be truly fulfilled/dont you feel selfish“etc.

To be clear, the comment about not knowing real love was introduced on the thread by someone who doesn’t appear to have children:

“Yeah all those childless people who don’t know what tired is. What busy is. What real love is. What stress is. What it is to put anyone before themselves. How dare they even ever complain about ANYTHING! They know nothing!”

Not one person has outright said or suggested that.

What is all the disdain for women with children about?

True!

Who keeps exactly the same group of friends for their whole lives? I would think it more weird of people did to be honest. Some friends last a lifetime, many don’t. Some friends are there for a particular phase of life, then things change. That’s just normal. I am a mum. I have mum friends, and child free friends. Some of my pre children friendships lasted, some didn’t. Some of my friendships developed through children have lasted, some haven’t. It’s weird to just assume that the OP’s friends are one day going to be lonely and will bitterly regret letting the friendship slide… they might, but equally they might not.

Because they've ignored them. As often said on here these " mum" friends don't last well . Probably simply because they only gravitate towards each other due to kids. Once the people start getting back to themselves and not so child obsessed they may not like the " mum" friends muxh

That.

I was the last of my friends to have children, by some margin. And I remember that feeling although it was several decades ago. The closeness disappears, and you become the person 'who doesn't understand what it's like' and the one who constantly makes the adjustments, but who is forgotten when the others meet up. It hurts.

When I had my own children I made new friends, because the old ones had lost interest in me by then.

Why would they have no friends? The OP’s said they are seeing other friends, just not her at the moment.
Friendships evolve. Lives change. People have different priorities, different lifestyles… people relate to different people at different times of their lives. If friendships are meant to last, they will. I have wonderful friends from primary school, I also have wonderful friends I only met in the past couple of years, through our kids. I have friends I drifted apart from for years because our lifestyles just weren’t compatible, but we’ve since reconnected and are as close as we were before. I have friends who I was very close to for a period, but no longer am. That’s just life.

This is a valid point. Some parents go around acting like parenthood is some burden put upon them without choice.

. Just as long as they don't moan when they have no friends in the future. If they are currently ok with it they've made to choice and can't expect the ignored friends to reapoear when the need or want them around

But you DO have a choice, you just already made it, in choosing to be a parent.
And yes, many, many parents will tell or at best, imply, to their child free friends that being a parent is the “superior” choice. See previous comments about “you’ll never know real love/be truly fulfilled/dont you feel selfish“etc.
It is tiresome, but, ime, as I previously said, it passes!

Yeah. Maybe they’re the ones who aren’t ok with it? Obviously all people are different. The OP’s friends might be ok with the current situation though.

Dear God why do you have to be so passive aggressive? Does it make you feel happy?

Yawn. I don’t know anyone who routinely does this.

The only child free friend I never really picked up with after DS was born was an old friendly work colleague who I used to go to dinner with. After DS was born she never once contacted me to ask how we were, how the birth had gone or how we were bearing up - even months later.

I had PND, a terrible birth, a non sleeping baby and my life had fallen apart. I no longer had the energy to maintain 30+ friendships, especially with people who hadn’t even bothered to ask if I was ok.

You get enough mothers of young kids moaning their friends have disappeared also

If you CBA to make the effort then you can't expect people who hang around for years in case you suddenly decide you can be bothered with them

That applies to friends in general.

What if the childfree woman is a full time carer for an adult, has a full time job? fertility doesn’t equal busyness.