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Schools/acamedies are actually inhumane for students and staff alike! Long post...

56 replies

Realworld10 · Yesterday 00:44

I did warn the long post...

When I first started teaching in the early 1990s it was still a tough gig but there really was a mutual comaraderie and consensus (mostly) with all of us, including parents, together. A quick call, sorry but Gary has been disruptive the past few weeks, can we get to the bottom of it together rather than escalation to formal reports (though we did have to write incidents of course) but we all knew this. Response was almost always supportive and students knew they did have to be more respectful and they were and apologised. Of course those who couldn't regulate themselves and needed extra support, we acknowledged this and went above and beyond to get help.

This was the time of schools, smaller, we all knew students' names because they were in our classes or extra activities. If we didn't know a name, quick ask of other staff and seconds later we found out. IME it really was like a big family who cared for each other.

Yes, I grew up in the 1970s and 1980s so know about and have experienced inappropriate behaviour from teachers and had been trained about so many issues ehich weren't called 'Safeguarding' but the same ideology.

Back to the point 👉...these small local secondary schools were closed down (I won't go into the politics of suddenly becoming 'incompetent' after decades of success) to create one new massive new build to incorporate students who used to walk to needing a bus, parents dropping off.

Once in school, a fish bowl of one way only in long, stuffy corridors and stairs for our DC to get to next lesson. Barely time to decompress from previous lesson to be met with 'bell task'. Yes, we do really need to stood outside of our classrooms to hand out pieces of paper for this. It's so difficult not having your own classroom, which we used to have, to not enough to spare so we have we wheel a trolley of books, resources, up flights of stairs because the lift means to ask for a key which you have to interrupt the library (not on the same floor) for, then run to give it back before the lift doors close. Then at the designated classroom, to be expected to hand out bell tasks, wheel your trolley in, give out books, login and hope the remote is there and not been hidden (yes staff do steal them) to freeze starter task while you login to online register and call all names out. Meanwhile of course dealing with the usual 'Miss, I don't have my book a pen, a chair, he's kicking me, she's stolen my pencil, it stinks in here, I'm cold, I'm hot etc. '

The new build has fantastic technology with every corridor needing a swipe from staff to get to the next corridor. While I do appreciate the safety aspect of it, when on supply and trapped between 2 doors, having to bang to get someone to notice, I do fear for my life in a fire risk situation.

So, on to the structure of the day now...
As a parent, the earliest I could drop DC off at nursery then primary breakfast club at 8am, then a 25 mins drive, I was there before 8.30am. Fortunately, before it became an academy, I was able to do this as tutor time was 9am and I had of course planned and prepared, photocopied resources beforehand, all ready for the next day and beyond. Staff meetings were twice a week, 8.45am.

So, the academy takeovers 😳 True life experience. All of a sudden business took over education. Small schools who were thriving suddenly became inadequate, brilliant HTs and older members of staff disappeared with NDAs. The big conglomerate academies replaced them, along with young staff trained by the management of them.

I dare to say this now because I'm out of it, on my own accord, but feel very passionate about how this has been allowed to happen. I've observed ECTs who are under this regiment and he was a former student. I couldn't hold back and said how awful it seems so robotic now; prescribed powerpoints, no time for individual input and, though he was equally as scared to speak about it, he said Miss you're right, we're robots now who daren't do anything different 😢

Yes this has been background leading up to the main point that an academy day is ruthless.

15 mins for morning break has always been the case, quick replenish after one/two hours, toilet. There is no need to queue up in the canteen, snack in your bag, you've got your water already kids. Same for us, gobble something, few sips of coffee, loo, back to entry demands. When we're on duty we don't get a break, look for the nearest loo, drink our coffee standing up in tje corridor then go back to teach.

Lunch however is far too squashed! Half an hour is ridiculous 🙄 all in order to start and finish early and trap students inside, the same with staff, it's inhumane! The rotas of different years having lunch just to finish earlier. It really was far better when we had an hour (not sexist, it happened) boys playing football, girls walking about, fresh air and time.

Unfortunately, due to misuse and reckless behaviour from some students, most academies see the need for a shorter, more intensive school day structure to prevent the opportunity for this. However, this restriction to 'let go' means even more disruption in lessons.

So I say 'inhumane' as new built acamedies seem like cages for all of us. As staff we don't have an office as a curriculum leaders, so have to juggle meetings/detentions/interventions/extra tuition all in the same room.

Students have to rush from one room to the next, one way, same prescribed format, so boring! Then their breaks are so short, queuing, toilets locked at an exact time when they've barely had enough time to eat.

As an ex teacher, already knowing it was abhorrent, being on supply I'm able to take a step back and observe the whole thing. I see your DC coming in desperate to go to the toilet and, also as a FT teacher, I knew and would let them go always. Rules have to be followed as supply, but same again, you can tell when a student is genuine.

To add yet again, it's unfortunate that a few spoil it for others, make a shoe of about to wet themselves, make a mockery.

Sad that schools are now run as businesses, oh the parking with reservations for 'CEO' and other corporate labels is immediately visible for us plebs. The struggle to get a parking space and you need to go elsewhere, but the aligning road has a permit sign because the neighbourhood doesn't like parking on their road, so thankfully you have a supermarket nearby which allows extra hours so you wheel your trolley, have your backpack and deciding whether you can walk or need to jog. Then you see the always empty spots of CEO and the other titles.

I know this has been an incredibly long post, thank you to those of you have read my vent! So much more to say but basically we teachers are just cogs in the academy machine but do our job because we chose this caring and educational profession. We care about your DC and agree with so many things you're saying.

OP posts:
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PopcornKitten · Yesterday 16:37

100% agree with what you’re saying.
as a parent, and member of school staff, I have watched the erosion of care and the more corporate attitude in schools.
kids and staff are treated badly in many schools. If you stay under the radar you can avoid some of the negative experiences.

LeanBackAgain · Yesterday 12:22

I broadly agree with some of your main points - the academy system means schools are now very often run by a large MAT and are results-focussed businesses first and foremost; teachers and students are under ridiculous amounts of pressure to perform; there has been a shift away from collaborative teacher-parent relations in some (lots, but not all) schools.

However, I think you are looking at the past through rose tinted glasses.

I was at primary school in the 1980s and secondary school in the early-mid 90s. My school was a supposedly very good London state school - good results considering it drew from areas of deprivation; excellent sixth form; parents wanted their child to go there.

There was zero safeguarding (or anything approaching it…I know statutory duties hadn’t been brought in back then). Many inappropriate relationships and interactions between staff and students. Extremely poor attendance monitoring.

SEND support was non existent. An hour a week out of class with the one ‘learning support lady’ for the most challenged children was the best offer.

The senior leadership hid in their offices and ruled from behind closed doors.

There were fights and behaviour issues akin to what happens in only the very worst schools today.

And although we had some wonderful teachers, regulation of the profession and monitoring of standards was zilch. We had a PE teacher who regularly pushed and manhandled students. A drama teacher who smoked fags at break with year 9/10s. A Head of Year who roasted us in assemblies, calling us ‘thick idiots’ and ‘stupid’. A creepy lech caretaker. A paedo art teacher (later convicted).

I was seen as disruptive and lazy because despite being top set for every subject, I truanted a lot and was disengaged in lessons. Actually, I was a troubled child, had a drug problem and was being exploited by an adult male outside school (who used to drop me and pick me up from school in plain sight). No teacher ever asked if I was ok or what was going on, and communication with my mother was the occasional letter to say my attendance and punctuality were poor.

I wouldnt slip under the radar in the same way in today’s education system. Not a chance.

howshouldibehave · Yesterday 12:00

It’s not just academies-my last school was LA and very similar.

I am so glad to have left. I wouldn’t recommend teaching to my worse enemy.

Blushingm · Yesterday 11:55

I think you’re generalising

BogRollBOGOF · Yesterday 11:53

Not all academies are the same. Yes there are some very corporate, zero humanity tolerance trusts, but others are much more education centred and not notably different to schools within the past 30 years.

Funding is a major issue for all schools. It does feel like academy culture has sucked money upwards into corporate management salaries while in classrooms glue sticks are still in short supply. Pootling happily on MPS6 can be a dangerous place to be at risk of replacement by cheaper, less experienced teachers.

The other issue is behaviour and personal responsibility. 30 years ago we didn't need "standards cards" for equipment at my school as equipment was a non issue. If you got caught out, you could borrow a spare from a friend, and no disruption caused. With standards cards, I have to lend out far fewer pens now than I was 10-20 years ago when there wasn't a consequence. I remember one lesson where I had 6 y8s with something to write with and 20 who didn't. I may as well have chucked my spare pens in the bin myself rather than the sense of deflation at picking up their broken shards off the floor at the end of the lesson. It was a particularly shit class in a shitty school then, but that lack of personal responsibility (and enabling by parents) has become more widespread since, and schools have had to adjust in order to keep schools as places of learning and not being daycare for feral teenagers.

Again, lunchtimes are a cost of staffing supervision, and behaviour. Even if lunchtime supervisors were still affordable, many students would treat them without respect. Many parents would backlash against extending the school day to accomodate longer lunch times.

Screamingabdabz · Yesterday 10:40

randomchap · Yesterday 01:30

Please tell us more about the idyllic education of the 70s and 80s. We're all agog

At least I had a proper lunch break and school trips. School discos sometimes.

As a working class kid it was a patchy education but at least I came out literate and had been exposed to a broad range of ideas.

And I left school with my mental health intact.

Sympathies op. It’s a bin fire now.

dontaskmeanythinginthemorning · Yesterday 10:17

BigYellowBus · Yesterday 05:36

Tell us more about these 'small local schools'. Mine (1970s-80s) was 750 pupils (4 forms per year) and that was considered quite small. I doubt any teachers knew every pupil...

Not know properly, but know of, 750 wouldn’t be too hard. I’m in a 5-form entry school (plus larger sixth form) of 1200 and I’d say I know at least two thirds of every year group reasonably well (usually because I’ve taught them over the years) and know a reasonable number of others by sight/by name because they are known for good things or bad!

FedUpCelery · Yesterday 09:57

I was at school in the early 90s, to be fair it was a huge split site comp now closed and it was hideous then. Lunch was too long as we were kicked outside in all weathers to stand in the rain and wind. There was nothing to do and no shelter. Then come back dripping and cold for the afternoon.

Lessons were very disturbed by behavioural issues. I once counted and there was about 20 minutes of disjointed teaching times in an hour long lesson. Anyone bright enough got questions the teacher asked of them wrong on purpose so that they didn't stand out.
In mixed ability classes, easily more than 60% couldn't read well enough to get any learning from the 'read these paragraphs in the textbook and answer the questions' style of teaching.

I have lots of sympathy for the plight of students and teachers in academies if your description is accurate (I have no experience of them) , but maybe they've tried to fix the problems I've described?

3GIANTSTRAWBERRIES · Yesterday 09:49

This seems very school specific. My DD is year 6 so I've toured various local schools lately and don't recognise what you describe. Some of what you describe isn't new. I was at secondary school in the 90s and we always has a one way system with in-doors and out-doors, because the corridor was narrow. Same as when my dad was at the same school in the 60s. We always moved between lessons (because sometimes you need a science lab, workshop etc) and we always got the bus - because the school served lots of villages. Maybe it was different where you were. Like I said, different schools do things differently. And I hated the long lunchtime. I would have preferred the 30 break and earlier home time. Most kids brought packed lunch anyway because the school dinners were awful!

NeverDropYourMooncup · Yesterday 09:37

XelaM · Yesterday 08:16

Let's hope the mechanism doesn't mis-function

Well, as it's done through the alarm circuit being completed so that if the alarm is going, no current goes to the locks to be able to keep the doors shut (the default is open, like a doorbell is off until it is switched on), plus this also means a power cut or fire would also make them open, physics makes this a somewhat implausible situation.

noblegiraffe · Yesterday 09:36

Yes, huge cuts in school funding over the years has meant that things have had to become more efficient and nice-to-haves disappeared long ago.

Shorter lunch times not only mean that kids have less time to piss around and vandalise stuff/start a fight, it also means that the school doesn't have to hire lunch staff for as long as time. It means that the school can close earlier which means that the lights don't have to be on for as long. I was also going to say that the heating doesn't have to be on for as long, but the heating is switched off long before the end of the school day in my school.

With a severe shortage of teachers, centralised PowerPoints and resources are the only way that a school can ensure that teachers who don't know the subject they are teaching is actually delivered in some sort of structured way.

I mean, I was posting about the school funding crisis and the teacher recruitment crisis for a long time and people didn't seem to give a shit, so here we are.

Owninterpreter · Yesterday 09:13

It isnt a a academies forcing short lunches. Its behaviour and lack of funding. My sons school had short lunches before it joined to an academy when he wss in year 9 so when it was LA maintained.

Schools cant staff it. Schools that are staffing longer lunches will be doing things like offering less subjects or have more pp funding that offsets it.

I m not suggesting academies are perfect and there will be badly run ones doung a crap job, but some of these examples are just pretty standard responses to managing budgets and behaviour across LA and Academy schools.

Periperi2025 · Yesterday 09:04

The academy system appears to be far from perfect, as someone who only gets 30 mins for lunch in my top, I totally agree it is inadequate, and the draconian rules around toilets need reviewing, as difficult as it is may be to do so.

However compare this to Wales where the recent PISA results show the average Welsh kid is performing at the standard of the poorest performing English kid, with reading and maths two years behind their English peers.

Be careful what you wish for!!

Sartre · Yesterday 08:21

fuckeditupbadly · Yesterday 08:03

Only of there is enough capacity for them all to access food and the toilet in that 30 minutes, which there rarely is.

It’s staggered at my DC’s school. Year 7 go alone, year 8 and 10 share and 9 and 11 share at different times.

XelaM · Yesterday 08:16

NeverDropYourMooncup · Yesterday 01:20

The doors automatically unlock when a fire alarm is triggered.

Edited

Let's hope the mechanism doesn't mis-function

user293948849167 · Yesterday 08:10

Neither of my DDs schools or the one my DH teaches at are like this, lucky I suppose we don’t have any academies here. There are problems for sure but on the whole they’re nice schools

UnaGatita · Yesterday 08:07

YourKeenMauveJoker · Yesterday 07:40

A bell task is what pupils do when they enter the room before everyone is there. A starter is what everyone does after the register.

Yes. My school has just introduced a ‘do now’ task which is to be done on entry to the room (now to be calm and in silence), which is separate from the lesson starter.

fuckeditupbadly · Yesterday 08:03

Sartre · Yesterday 08:00

My secondary school wasn’t an academy but had almost 2000 pupils and the teachers couldn’t cope at all. It was a terrible school, this was in the 00s. Fights were a daily occurrence, smoking was normal, some kids would be smoking pot at the main gates as you walked in, we all just did whatever the hell we felt like including walking out of school if we wanted… It was like Lord of the Flies.

I think the 30 min lunch is a great idea. Stops kids pissing about and getting into fights.

Only of there is enough capacity for them all to access food and the toilet in that 30 minutes, which there rarely is.

attichoarder · Yesterday 08:03

The big academy chain our area fits what you say OP , too large and homogeneous across all its schools. I thought the original purpose of a self governing school was to give freedom , that is not the case.

dizzydizzydizzy · Yesterday 08:03

randomchap · Yesterday 01:30

Please tell us more about the idyllic education of the 70s and 80s. We're all agog

I was badly bullied by my class teacher in the last year of primary in the 1970s. I had a breakdown at secondary school as a result.

I had some brilliant inspiring teachers but some also useless ones. I had a Latin teacher who loved talking about Roman sex. She was great! I also had a Biology teacher who also talked very openly about sex and relationships- she was also excellent. Maths and German teachers also outstanding. For English I had a series of incompetents, one in particular who spent a whole double lesson playing us the soundtrack to Fiddler on the Roof. My A-Level Physics teacher was a very nice guy but not a good teacher - he didn’t have any qualifications in physics or teaching.

We all thought one of the PE teachers was a perv. Twenty years later, I found out we were right - she was imprisoned for paedophilia!!!

fuckeditupbadly · Yesterday 08:00

DeafLeppard · Yesterday 07:48

If by “failed” you mean the only Western education system where children are actually at least keeping pace or improving on their ability in reading and mathematics, then yes, English schools are failing.

I dont think primary schools are doing too badly in that regard, my expertise and experience is with secondary and the 3-4 years many kids spend in them being dragged through a horrendous curriculum of dated, irrelevant texts in English, abstract, incredibly technical content in maths and science that they'll never use or remember and becoming so disaffected they come out with few qualifications and a feeling of failure. Much better to recognise reality and provide functional skills for all at 14 followed by a varied pathway of options beyond that.

Sartre · Yesterday 08:00

My secondary school wasn’t an academy but had almost 2000 pupils and the teachers couldn’t cope at all. It was a terrible school, this was in the 00s. Fights were a daily occurrence, smoking was normal, some kids would be smoking pot at the main gates as you walked in, we all just did whatever the hell we felt like including walking out of school if we wanted… It was like Lord of the Flies.

I think the 30 min lunch is a great idea. Stops kids pissing about and getting into fights.

BigYellowBus · Yesterday 07:59

sakura06 · Yesterday 07:47

But that is small for a secondary! We have 600 students in our sixth form alone! And my DDs primary was 3 form entry and 600 pupils too.

Indeed. But according to the OP, in the 90s it was all small schools where the teachers knew everybody...

Fiftyandme · Yesterday 07:57

If you think it’s inhumane, then times that by 10 for SEND kids and families. I’m currently on the edge of a break down and having to take sleeping tablets that aren’t working, taking time off sick, all because my child is autistic

RedTagAlan · Yesterday 07:54

Dontwantt · Yesterday 07:40

Personally I wouldn’t have that sort of faith in technology to work. Not if my life depends on it. I want a manual over-ride.

The regs will cover that. You put your life in the hands of technology all the time. That is why there are so many regs. If you are sat on a sofa, that sofa has regs. Drive a car ? Regs. Fire alarm.. Regs. Fire escapes routes... lots of regs. Including Fire brigade checks for public access building.

Also fire drills in schools. A legal requirement.

Fire Regulations and Legal Requirements for Schools in the UK - Monks Security (monks-security.co.uk)

Fire Regulations and Legal Requirements for Schools in the UK - Monks Security

https://www.monks-security.co.uk/news/fire-regulations-for-schools-in-uk

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