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AIBU?

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AIBU to not want my brother living in my flat long term

80 replies

youngersibling · Yesterday 00:17

I’m late twenties, and my brother is mid thirties. I purchased my flat in London just over a year ago, I fortunately did get some help from my parents with the deposit.

I’m single and have been living alone here. I did think about getting a lodger in at some point but I’ve just been loving having my own space. Before this I’ve been in many flatshares including short term subletting right before completing on my property

My brother lived in big US city for work, we’d only see each other few times for big family events as we’re not super close and wouldn’t really hang out 1on1. I wouldn’t invite him to my birthday celebrations and vice versa, if we weren’t siblings we probably wouldn’t be friends

Unfortunately he was made redundant and was out of work for almost a year so moved back in with our parents in rural town. I did feel really bad for him as it must’ve been a tough adjustment. He recently landed a job which is in London and wants to buy his own place here too but before that needs somewhere to stay. He doesn’t want to flatshare with strangers but also doesn’t want to spend so much on rent for 1 bed place in zone 1 or 2. He also earns much more than me

He’s expecting to stay at my flat for next 5or6 months at discounted rate, as expects to have bought a place by then. Although I think that’s pretty ambitious as conveyancing can be unpredictable, what if it’s a year or longer (mine took 7 months)

I really don’t feel comfortable him moving in and want my independence. I voiced concerns to my parents saying that I don’t mind helping out for few months as a favour but really don’t want this long term (think I could just about cope with 4 months together). My parents think I’m being cruel and greedy, they want me to offer around 10 months, I feel guilty because I wouldn’t have my flat deposit without my parents help

I’d rather be sharing with a flatmate from Spareroom than my brother as I feel like there’d be better boundaries and I still have privacy and independence. I don’t feel comfortable to fully relax and would feel unable to do some things whilst living with him

We have different politics and I usually would avoid bringing up certain topics because it’ll only cause resentment. Harder to do that if we have to live together for a while

OP posts:
Millytante · Yesterday 11:25

lovelycattus · Yesterday 11:05

It might improve your relationship if you did ? Idk 🤷‍♀️
I probably would agree but have some ground rules in place before he moves in.

Thing is with ground rules in such circs, they are of no concern to anyone whose intention it is to exploit a situation where their ‘victim’ will be seen by those with the financial and cultural power (ma and pa) as on the back foot and in the wrong as a matter of course. Ground rules are trodden underfoot.
I think OP has to defy tradition, but with all appearance of rationality and calmness; not combative (yet), and refuse to accede to this arrangement.

Her peace of mind, her work, her health, her studying perhaps, and above all her precious independence, are under threat and she is old enough to insist they not be tossed aside now.
Who knows, the brother could settle in and start feeding ma and pa tales of sis’s Westernised debauchery, her scofflaw friends and dates even; her eating habits, her mini skirt!
Drip-feeding such poison could have him as good as owning the flat before she can say Jack Robinson, unless she activates her titanium spine and determined jaw.

TurtleMcTurtle · Yesterday 11:22

It sounds like you’re saying that your Brother would judge the way that you live, as an adult, in your own home, would not approve and would potentially talk to your parents about it.

For example, it could be something as simple as liking a glass of wine with dinner and your parents not approving of alcohol consumption, or it could be that you want to have adult intimate relationships (perfectly normal) and that your brother/parents wouldn’t approve.

It could be that you’re in a same sex relationship and your brother/parents are homophobes.

Or it could be something as simple as enjoying Doritos and Cake for dinner some nights, when your parents would expect you to eat a home cooked meal, and provide one for your brother.

All of these, and every other thing that you do in your own home is your business and not theirs. Whilst the money they gave you muddied the waters, it was a gift and they didn’t tell you that it was to be accepted upon you agreeing to have various family members to stay with you whenever they wanted.

You’re an adult now, if your parents disapprove of you not letting your brother live with you, is that any worse than how they would disapprove of the way you love your life if your brother DOES live with you and reports your every move back to them?

Millytante · Yesterday 11:14

youngersibling · Yesterday 10:55

Funnily enough my parents have already said your brother wouldn’t say no to you

I think the difference is one I wouldn’t want to live with him or my parents (unless no other choice)

When my tenancy finished and was waiting on last few months of conveyancing my parents kept pressuring me to move in with them but I chose to sublet in a gross flatshare instead for the independence (nice flatmate though who I could be myself in front of unlike family)

I think, given the cultural background you depict, that you have all the more reason to refuse accommodation to your brother. You are fighting from a gender disadvantage already, do you need to be doubly resolute.
I can foresee a day when your parents tell you the flat must be handed over to him, as his are the more important needs, and you return to the family home!
Males will always be more precious and your brother could probably convince your mum about all kinds of selfish plans. He does sound most manipulative, and I’d be feeling very wary indeed.

I was thinking of this overnight, as I’d freak out at the thought of unwanted guests at the best of times.
I think, on the matter of your having received financial help from them, you absolutely must not weaken there. You don’t owe your parents just anything they demand, whatever the ££ circs. There has to be a limit, or that financial help is actually shackling you to them, which rather defeats the object of leaving home.

If I were you therefore, and if this issue were actually a talking point when you (I HOPE!) tell them it’s a ‘No way’ from you, I’d calmly offer to repay that deposit in monthly instalments rather than have your right to privacy and solitude etc depend on their goodwill. Say it as though this is a commonplace suggestion, no big deal. (Though fingers x’d they don’t call your bluff!)

Main thing: guard your independence like a holy relic.
If your brother gets his feet under your table you’ll end up like the recent poster who took YEARS to wrest back her own home from an unscrupulous, manipulative brother-as-lodger. It was a horror story.

Mirroredclock · Yesterday 11:11

I would suck it up, good boundary’s from the off, don’t mother him, it’s not forever

lovelycattus · Yesterday 11:05

It might improve your relationship if you did ? Idk 🤷‍♀️
I probably would agree but have some ground rules in place before he moves in.

youngersibling · Yesterday 11:05

@CruelsummerTS I do agree with you, but it probably doesn’t help that in my culture it’s rarer for people to flatshare instead of living with family. Hence he wouldn’t be seen as being the fussy or entitled one to my family, that would be me lol

OP posts:
Millytante · Yesterday 11:00

nomas · Yesterday 10:59

Could you turnaround your culture on to your parents a bit?

Tell them that you have girlfriends come to stay a lot and they wouldn’t be comfortable with a male in the house?

Ooh, I love it!

nomas · Yesterday 10:59

youngersibling · Yesterday 10:55

Funnily enough my parents have already said your brother wouldn’t say no to you

I think the difference is one I wouldn’t want to live with him or my parents (unless no other choice)

When my tenancy finished and was waiting on last few months of conveyancing my parents kept pressuring me to move in with them but I chose to sublet in a gross flatshare instead for the independence (nice flatmate though who I could be myself in front of unlike family)

Could you turnaround your culture on to your parents a bit?

Tell them that you have girlfriends come to stay a lot and they wouldn’t be comfortable with a male in the house?

EricTheHalfASleeve · Yesterday 10:59

Hard no - you'll end up massively falling out. I nearly shared with a sibling, it fell through which with hindsight was a good thing - we'd probably have been estranged within 48 hours!

CruelsummerTS · Yesterday 10:56

He doesn’t want to flatshare with strangers but also doesn’t want to spend so much on rent for 1 bed place in zone 1 or 2. He also earns much more than me

He may not want those options but they are his options and it sounds like he can afford it. Most people who move to London end up in a flat share or paying extortionate rent. That’s what you get in London. He could live somewhere cheaper and commute? But ultimately he shouldn’t get to impose on you in order to swerve what most people including yourself have to go through. He sounds entitled.

If I were you I’d find a way to say no. Once he is in it’ll be harder to get him out.

youngersibling · Yesterday 10:55

nomas · Yesterday 10:46

Given your parents are also helping him with the deposit, they don’t have much leverage here.

Would he let you stay with him for 10 months?

Funnily enough my parents have already said your brother wouldn’t say no to you

I think the difference is one I wouldn’t want to live with him or my parents (unless no other choice)

When my tenancy finished and was waiting on last few months of conveyancing my parents kept pressuring me to move in with them but I chose to sublet in a gross flatshare instead for the independence (nice flatmate though who I could be myself in front of unlike family)

OP posts:
Sunsunsuns · Yesterday 10:51

You will bitterly regret saying yes.

nomas · Yesterday 10:46

youngersibling · Yesterday 10:40

Sorry I should’ve mentioned my parents will also help him with his deposit too which is fair.

If of any relevance I’m also from a culture where multi generational households are common and lots of pressure to put family first, especially for women. I’ve never liked that aspect of my culture which is why I left home after uni without ever returning.

My parents not only have the leverage of helping me buy my place but in their eyes they have been very generous to let me live alone as an unmarried woman, prev flatshare with men, go out out a lot. It’s an old fashioned mindset, wouldn’t even be acceptable to drink in front of extended family or put up a WhatsApp profile picture with a drink in view.

I guess for my parents, 'allowing' me to live a more liberal unconventional life was already a bit of a compromise for them. Refusing my brother now feels like I’m extra ungrateful for the freedom I’ve had so far, wouldn’t be suprised if they think along lines of ‘give them an inch take a mile’

Ironically I feel like I mostly live a pretty tame life but I’d rather not have to hide some aspects in my own home

Given your parents are also helping him with the deposit, they don’t have much leverage here.

Would he let you stay with him for 10 months?

youngersibling · Yesterday 10:40

Sorry I should’ve mentioned my parents will also help him with his deposit too which is fair.

If of any relevance I’m also from a culture where multi generational households are common and lots of pressure to put family first, especially for women. I’ve never liked that aspect of my culture which is why I left home after uni without ever returning.

My parents not only have the leverage of helping me buy my place but in their eyes they have been very generous to let me live alone as an unmarried woman, prev flatshare with men, go out out a lot. It’s an old fashioned mindset, wouldn’t even be acceptable to drink in front of extended family or put up a WhatsApp profile picture with a drink in view.

I guess for my parents, 'allowing' me to live a more liberal unconventional life was already a bit of a compromise for them. Refusing my brother now feels like I’m extra ungrateful for the freedom I’ve had so far, wouldn’t be suprised if they think along lines of ‘give them an inch take a mile’

Ironically I feel like I mostly live a pretty tame life but I’d rather not have to hide some aspects in my own home

OP posts:
Hippiedippi · Yesterday 10:07

As someone with pushy family members, I tend to be creative with the truth.

perhaps you’ve had your hours/pay cut at work and have taken in a female lodger at market rate. Ask your brother if he can pay the same amount which he won’t want to. Job doneeeee

Bouncywaves · Yesterday 09:49

As a parent, I hope to help at least one of my children with a house deposit, if not both. (One of them is in a better paid profession.) I wouldn't think that just because I helped one with the deposit, he was compelled to house his brother (although my children are far closer than you and your brother seem to be). I think your parents are being very unfair especially as your brother earns more than you do. It's not as if he couldn't pay for a a 1 bedroom place in a nice area, it's just that he doesn't want to. It would be entirely different if he was facing eviction and homelessness but he is not. You deserve to enjoy your twenties - your brother undoubtedly did. This is the time when you might expect to meet the person you eventually marry or partner up with. You don't need your brother as a freeloading gooseberry in your flat.

MrsMoastyToasty · Yesterday 09:23

Charge him full market rent.
You'll lose your single adult discount on council tax anyway so it will go some way to mitigating that.

Karmaiscool · Yesterday 09:20

@youngersibling when money is gifted for a UK property purchase the source of funds anti money laundering process requires written confirmation that it is a gift without reservation. So your parents can't guilt trip you into this.
However, the Monday to Thursday suggestion sounds pragmatic for family harmony for 6 months or until his property complete, whichever is sooner. There's plenty of empty London flats on the market at the moment and prices have fallen massively. Very much a buyer's market.
Charge half market rent, pay for a cleaner out of it if needed and you get the flat to yourself for 3 evenings and all weekend.

Somerford · Yesterday 08:38

The money your parents gave you towards your deposit is obviously giving them a feeling of ownership over your home. Its horrible when you realise that a gift comes with strings attached but here we are.

I'd probably be trying to pay them back if that's do-able. If it isn't, I think you need to tell them that you took their help on face value and you won't allow them to start adding new terms to the deal after the fact. You've been reasonable offering a few months and between them they're pushing for almost a year and you have no control over whether it goes beyond that or not. If you were to get to 10 months and it transpires that he hasn't saved enough or he can't get a mortgage or something you're probably going to face the same pressure and guilt tripping when you try to get him to leave. You may as well deal with it now.

LauritaEvita · Yesterday 08:30

SaySomethingMan · Yesterday 07:53

Hes your brother. Unless there’s some bug back story about how mean he is to you, etc, then I don’t understand why you wouldn’t help him. I’d say the 10mibth suggestion is reasonable. You want a lodger abd could end up with a horrible person. At least this would be 10mibth a with someone you know.
Why would you need to talk about politics with him? You would still be able to live separate lives surely, your own meals, friends etc.
I agree with your parents.
I really hope when my DC are older, they wouldn’t think twice about offering help like this to each other. I pray they have a relationship where they care and want to help each other

I’m with you. I’m not getting why this is such a big deal unless there’s more to it?

Rockfrock · Yesterday 08:09

This is one of those BIG FOUR decisions you get in life. If you choose route ‘A’ then ‘x’ happens if you choose ‘B’ it takes you down a completely different path. You don’t realise how pivotal it was until you are in your 40s and you look back on your 20s and 30s and say to yourself - why didn’t my career take off or why did I not meet the right person or how did I end up with such an amazing life?
I bet everyone on this thread is thinking DON’T DO it because it will restrict your way of life.
As someone who has just given a DC miney to help their deposit I get what you think but don’t let bully brother ruin your twenties and the freedom which is your right of passage. Sending assertiveness and resolve to you, OP.

LaurieFairyCake · Yesterday 08:04

Stop talking to them about it. You and your brother are adults. I would literally say ‘I’m not talking to you about it, nor am I going to be guilt tripped into not doing what I want with my own property. Brother and I will sort it out between us’.

If you’re not able to have robust boundaries with your own brother and say ‘you can only stay 4 months and this is the cost’ then DO NOT allow him to move in.

Friendlygingercat · Yesterday 08:00

I fear you are going to have to pull your big girls pants on my dear. You are under no obligation to house your brother. Let him get a house share as you did for so many years. Why is he less capable than you of doing so?

I agree with many other posters and would 100% say no. I have lived independently of my parents since the 1960s and could not share a space especially with a sibling. I once got cajoled into housing a friend for a couple of nights when she had a row with their DH. I was glad when she left. Next time she arrived at my doorstep with an overnight bag I saw her through the keyhole (no ring doorbells back then) and did not answer the door, She sat outside for 2 hours before finally decamping.

TwinklyAmberSloth · Yesterday 07:55

@youngersibling name your price.

If you were contemplating a lodger who would have paid say £1000 a month then tell your parents you were contemplating getting a lodger so if your brother moves in he will need to pay the going lodger rate.

Put the £1000 aside and then keep saving until you have enough to pay back the deposit to your parents.

And dont forget that nice long list of lodger rules...

He might hate living with you and move out sooner.

LlynTegid · Yesterday 07:54

It will probably be longer than six months, probably not any failing or unreasonableness from your brother. Whatever you decide take that into account.

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