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AIBU?

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AIBU to not want my brother living in my flat long term

80 replies

youngersibling · Yesterday 00:17

I’m late twenties, and my brother is mid thirties. I purchased my flat in London just over a year ago, I fortunately did get some help from my parents with the deposit.

I’m single and have been living alone here. I did think about getting a lodger in at some point but I’ve just been loving having my own space. Before this I’ve been in many flatshares including short term subletting right before completing on my property

My brother lived in big US city for work, we’d only see each other few times for big family events as we’re not super close and wouldn’t really hang out 1on1. I wouldn’t invite him to my birthday celebrations and vice versa, if we weren’t siblings we probably wouldn’t be friends

Unfortunately he was made redundant and was out of work for almost a year so moved back in with our parents in rural town. I did feel really bad for him as it must’ve been a tough adjustment. He recently landed a job which is in London and wants to buy his own place here too but before that needs somewhere to stay. He doesn’t want to flatshare with strangers but also doesn’t want to spend so much on rent for 1 bed place in zone 1 or 2. He also earns much more than me

He’s expecting to stay at my flat for next 5or6 months at discounted rate, as expects to have bought a place by then. Although I think that’s pretty ambitious as conveyancing can be unpredictable, what if it’s a year or longer (mine took 7 months)

I really don’t feel comfortable him moving in and want my independence. I voiced concerns to my parents saying that I don’t mind helping out for few months as a favour but really don’t want this long term (think I could just about cope with 4 months together). My parents think I’m being cruel and greedy, they want me to offer around 10 months, I feel guilty because I wouldn’t have my flat deposit without my parents help

I’d rather be sharing with a flatmate from Spareroom than my brother as I feel like there’d be better boundaries and I still have privacy and independence. I don’t feel comfortable to fully relax and would feel unable to do some things whilst living with him

We have different politics and I usually would avoid bringing up certain topics because it’ll only cause resentment. Harder to do that if we have to live together for a while

OP posts:
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Millytante · Yesterday 19:33

OP, read your final two paragraphs out loud. Your prescience should be listened to!
You are a single, professional woman already on her own path and gaining a broad experience of life at the perfect age for it, yet here you are, expected to agree to shroud any ‘objectionable’ characteristics and enthusiasms, to sublimate your very presence in your own ruddy house, because Mr Big requires things to be ‘just so.’
(No way will he allow you to play The Slits late at night!)

As you say, you'll be 24/7 nervous, resentful, and hugely frustrated by the setup. It’s like you are at the moment sprinting along, in the zone and feeling good, on your chosen path, and you suddenly have to stop, and agree to quit running until he has found his ideal flat (maybe by mid-2028, given the puny rent he will pay you! )
I swear, in all seriousness, this notion will have a very deleterious effect on your wellbeing. It’ll affect your work, for one thing. You can’t allow that to start rolling backwards.
You’ll know better than most how common it is for sisters of these golden brothers to end up pretty much sacrificing their lives just to serve as big brother’s handmaiden. He’ll have you doing his laundry, stocking his preferred foods, and likely cooking them too. Only his friends may visit, and you must stay in your room.

Aargh! Im not saying anything you don’t already know, far better than I do.

I just hate to think of such a bright young woman being required to bow her head to make way for a domineering male sibling’s requirements.
I don’t think cultural tradition or pressures should carry any weight compared to the basic rights and freedoms you have as an adult in this society.
I wont get far shouting any such sentiment, but you, my dear, can RESIST✊🏼!
Good luck to you; I do hope you can prevail.

PloddingAlong21 · Yesterday 17:58

Initially thought you should because family help. Then came to my senses - no. If culturally the way you live isn’t compatable with what he would find acceptable it would be a disaster.

Hadalifeonce · Yesterday 16:58

I wouldn't do it, I think your parents will be thinking that he can keep an eye on you; then maybe, he thinks he has the right to 'look after' you. It all sounds like a recipe for disaster.

whittingtonmum · Yesterday 16:49

I would not involve your parents any further in the conversation. It's your flat and you and your brother are both adults.

So I would speak to your brother directly and say that this is between him and you and for him to please leave your parents out of it as you do not appreciate being dictated do what you can or can't do with the flat you own.

Then I would say you want to help him out but you need boundaries. You can't agree to an open-ended agreement but you can offer him 4 months at X rent. This gives him time enough to pass the probation period in his job (assume it's three months) and line up another temporary flat share while he is looking to buy.

If your brother complains to your parents that this arrangement isn't long/generous enough I would rescind the offer as it's clearly not appreciated and what you have said about boundaries has not been understood.

But you might find your brother being more reasonable about the arrangements than your parents.

EsmeSusanOgg · Yesterday 15:57

It needs to be a defined period. With a proper lodger agreement - so if it does not work - he can move out beforehand. I would suggest a max period with a break clause/ review. Say 6 months, with a review at 3 months. Neither of you know how compatible you are living together as adults. But I also understand why, with the deposit help from your parents, it may be hard to say an outright no.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · Yesterday 15:56

I think the weekdays not weekends would be reasonable.

Saltedcarameltiramisucheesecake · Yesterday 15:53

I wouldn't do it. He will move in and have problems finding a place. You'll never get rid of him.

RikthePoet · Yesterday 15:40

BlossomBeautyBarbie · Yesterday 01:39

The problem is THAT deposit. Money never comes without strings attached. They will use that to guilt you. I doubt he’d want to live with you for that long anyway, he’s a single man in his 30’s. How can he bring home women/men with his sister in the next room? You could always be a horrible room mate, leave a mess, don’t tidy, be a pain to live with.

Money often comes without strings attached if it comes from a loving place.

The money I give to my kids becomes my kids' money once it's handed over. No strings.

Sunsunsuns · Yesterday 15:12

Millytante · Yesterday 11:14

I think, given the cultural background you depict, that you have all the more reason to refuse accommodation to your brother. You are fighting from a gender disadvantage already, do you need to be doubly resolute.
I can foresee a day when your parents tell you the flat must be handed over to him, as his are the more important needs, and you return to the family home!
Males will always be more precious and your brother could probably convince your mum about all kinds of selfish plans. He does sound most manipulative, and I’d be feeling very wary indeed.

I was thinking of this overnight, as I’d freak out at the thought of unwanted guests at the best of times.
I think, on the matter of your having received financial help from them, you absolutely must not weaken there. You don’t owe your parents just anything they demand, whatever the ££ circs. There has to be a limit, or that financial help is actually shackling you to them, which rather defeats the object of leaving home.

If I were you therefore, and if this issue were actually a talking point when you (I HOPE!) tell them it’s a ‘No way’ from you, I’d calmly offer to repay that deposit in monthly instalments rather than have your right to privacy and solitude etc depend on their goodwill. Say it as though this is a commonplace suggestion, no big deal. (Though fingers x’d they don’t call your bluff!)

Main thing: guard your independence like a holy relic.
If your brother gets his feet under your table you’ll end up like the recent poster who took YEARS to wrest back her own home from an unscrupulous, manipulative brother-as-lodger. It was a horror story.

Great post.
I would keep saying no.
Get in a lodger quickly if it helps.

If your culture is so dominant of women and he is older than you, you will be dominated by him, in YOUR home.

Not worth the risk.

user1471538275 · Yesterday 14:29

You're going to have to stand firm, which is going to be difficult and refuse.

Your parents can't force this. They can only guilt you. Even if they started saying you had to give it back, they can't force it.

Your brother is going to be a massive pain - you're younger than him and I can imagine he is going to do whatever he wants in your flat, ignoring your wishes.

Don't let him ruin your living space.

Your parents can help him with a deposit, not make your life worse.

Tough it out. If it takes avoiding your parents for a while, do that, make sure they understand you're not going to bullied, which is what they are doing.

QueenietheGreat · Yesterday 14:23

@youngersibling
Sod this thing about blood being thicker than water tell them you want to decorate /renovate and were hoping for a female professional to rent for a set time till you'd saved the money needed, and that your brother will expect to be paying a peppercorn rent leading to nothing being done
State that although they helped with the deposit and its truly appreciated chances are that if your brother had been the one to stay in London he would've been the one they'd have helped instead and say that you know for a fact he'd not have had you anywhere near his property considering previous experiences of how he's always being with you in the past/his politcal leanings
And don't feel guilty
If it were him, he'd probably not about you
Whilst ignoring your parents

Laurmolonlabe · Yesterday 14:08

I would have a problem with more than 3 months and with the discounted rate, it's bad enough losing your space without being out of pocket.

Ohnobackagain · Yesterday 14:05

Definitely say no @youngersibling or it could drag on. Different if you were closer/had similar
values. Don’t let others guilt you.

DeclineandFall · Yesterday 14:03

I have been in your situation twice. First flat I bought in my twenties my parents expected me to flatshare with my brother as they had given me money which he used to buy a car and I used to buy my flat. I didn’t want it to happen but the blow up would’ve been so bad I let him. It wasn’t actually that bad. He was never in.
Second time it was when I was buying a house in our 30s, my ILs expected us to take my SIL in and pay nothing because DH had been given some money from his Grandparents will. As had she. She paid us nothing despite earning more than us.
That was a disaster. It was meant to be 3 months and then became a year. It was v stressful. Eventually we told her she had to go but because we had let her stay it avoided a total family shit show.

Its because your parents see it as their property not yours. There’s always strings attached even if they say there’s not. So until you can buy them out of their share - it will always be theirs not yours. If I had my time again I would tell DH to explain to his parents that his family money hadn’t been used for the house. Didn’t matter to them I had put a bit of money in when my Dad had died.

So I fully understand why you feel you can’t say no and I don’t think you can without serious family repercussions but I would talk to your brother and say let’s try and get through this as painlessly as possible. Take your parents out of it. You might find that he’s as keen to move on as you are to move him out.

MrsVBS · Yesterday 13:17

Just because your parents gave you a deposit it doesn’t mean they have a say on the flat for the rest of time, unless they gave you the deposit on the condition family could stay there whenever they needed to. There is no guarantee your brother will find a flat immediately and it can take months for a purchase to go through. If you pay the mortgage and bills on the place your parents have no right to dictate who can stay with you. Say no.

Grasshopperhopping · Yesterday 13:17

Tricky…

Does he need to move? Or could he commute from your parents to the new job?

Is your place convenient or could you spin it as ‘the northern line/overground is a nightmare, you’d be better renting in A or B for commuting and to also get a feel for where you want to buy’

Or could you simply say the second bedroom is your office/home gym and it’s not set up for longer term visitors?

EmmaB1309 · Yesterday 13:00

The fact that your parents helped you out with the deposit is completely irrelevant. Would you have accepted if you’d known there were strings attached? He’s a grown man in his 30’s. Neither you nor your parents owe him anything. And why the hell would you let him stay at a discounted rate?? He earns more than you! He’s not some 19 year old student who a parent might let stay and charge nothing or buttons for rent because they are studying!
You can absolutely flat out say no then grey rock them all if they try to put pressure on you. Get a payment plan in writing to pay back your parents if it’s not a loan, then they don’t have that to hold over you. No doubt they’ll try to say they want to the money back right away. Tough. They’ll never be able to demand that legally.
If you are feeling a bit kinder and want to offer something, tell him he can stay for three months (or whatever you’re comfortable with) but pay you proper rent, final offer.

Frazzledmum123 · Yesterday 12:54

TurtleMcTurtle · Yesterday 11:22

It sounds like you’re saying that your Brother would judge the way that you live, as an adult, in your own home, would not approve and would potentially talk to your parents about it.

For example, it could be something as simple as liking a glass of wine with dinner and your parents not approving of alcohol consumption, or it could be that you want to have adult intimate relationships (perfectly normal) and that your brother/parents wouldn’t approve.

It could be that you’re in a same sex relationship and your brother/parents are homophobes.

Or it could be something as simple as enjoying Doritos and Cake for dinner some nights, when your parents would expect you to eat a home cooked meal, and provide one for your brother.

All of these, and every other thing that you do in your own home is your business and not theirs. Whilst the money they gave you muddied the waters, it was a gift and they didn’t tell you that it was to be accepted upon you agreeing to have various family members to stay with you whenever they wanted.

You’re an adult now, if your parents disapprove of you not letting your brother live with you, is that any worse than how they would disapprove of the way you love your life if your brother DOES live with you and reports your every move back to them?

This 100%. I get the people saying it isn't a big deal for family but what was a huge red flag for me was 'he EXPECTS to stay with me'. It sounds like if he moves in he will see it as his place and you will have to do what suits him. He expects to move in, he expects to not pay full rate, if he had ASKED, my opinion would be quite different but I think it sounds like a nightmare.
I do get how hard it must be with your cultural pressures but what if he decides he doesn't want to move out? Is it going to be expected of you to be ok with that too? What if he doesn't like a future partner? Will it be expected of you to accommodate his preferences then and not have them round, as 'its his home too?' I think as @TurtleMcTurtle implied, you are likely to end up upsetting your parents one way or another anyway sadly so honestly I think its best to do it now and not have an unwelcome lodger that you will likely struggle to get rid of, at least on your terms. Good luck

Stinkybooks · Yesterday 12:48

I would hurry up and find a lodger! That way you won’t have a spare room.
I would definitely keep saying no sorry to your parents - whilst finding a lodger. Non existent or real!

Ohwhatfuckeryitistoride · Yesterday 12:38

Also reading ops comments, I think he'd move in, impose his views on her and she'd be seen as the unwanted guest.

Ohwhatfuckeryitistoride · Yesterday 12:35

Spartak · Yesterday 00:42

Could you tell him that you need to get a lodger paying market rent as you are saving up for a new kitchen/bathroom/furniture, and therefore it's not convenient to have him there?

Or even saving up to pay back your dp for the "gift". Do what my dsis did to prevent guests and convert the room into something else.

dottiedodah · Yesterday 11:48

Can u say just to stay to Christmas maybe ? He is getting help with a flat as well .Surely thats enough time to find somewhere.Or alternatively be terribly sorry but you forgot your good friend is coming to stay .It annoys me that you are being given tabs on your new home when you should be enjoying yourself!

Offherrockingchair · Yesterday 11:37

Say no. And keep saying it. If it causes a fall out, shame on them. He has the benefit of a deposit too. He can buy his own place. He is not homeless and can stay with your DP if he needs to. He’s in cloud cuckoo land. All this talk of wanting a certain zone, honestly! If he’s that particular he can pay to live where he wants.

thepariscrimefiles · Yesterday 11:31

youngersibling · Yesterday 10:40

Sorry I should’ve mentioned my parents will also help him with his deposit too which is fair.

If of any relevance I’m also from a culture where multi generational households are common and lots of pressure to put family first, especially for women. I’ve never liked that aspect of my culture which is why I left home after uni without ever returning.

My parents not only have the leverage of helping me buy my place but in their eyes they have been very generous to let me live alone as an unmarried woman, prev flatshare with men, go out out a lot. It’s an old fashioned mindset, wouldn’t even be acceptable to drink in front of extended family or put up a WhatsApp profile picture with a drink in view.

I guess for my parents, 'allowing' me to live a more liberal unconventional life was already a bit of a compromise for them. Refusing my brother now feels like I’m extra ungrateful for the freedom I’ve had so far, wouldn’t be suprised if they think along lines of ‘give them an inch take a mile’

Ironically I feel like I mostly live a pretty tame life but I’d rather not have to hide some aspects in my own home

Does your brother share your parents' regressive views regarding the position of women in society and their behaviour?

If your parents are giving him the deposit, why can't he buy a property now?

Millytante · Yesterday 11:26

TurtleMcTurtle · Yesterday 11:22

It sounds like you’re saying that your Brother would judge the way that you live, as an adult, in your own home, would not approve and would potentially talk to your parents about it.

For example, it could be something as simple as liking a glass of wine with dinner and your parents not approving of alcohol consumption, or it could be that you want to have adult intimate relationships (perfectly normal) and that your brother/parents wouldn’t approve.

It could be that you’re in a same sex relationship and your brother/parents are homophobes.

Or it could be something as simple as enjoying Doritos and Cake for dinner some nights, when your parents would expect you to eat a home cooked meal, and provide one for your brother.

All of these, and every other thing that you do in your own home is your business and not theirs. Whilst the money they gave you muddied the waters, it was a gift and they didn’t tell you that it was to be accepted upon you agreeing to have various family members to stay with you whenever they wanted.

You’re an adult now, if your parents disapprove of you not letting your brother live with you, is that any worse than how they would disapprove of the way you love your life if your brother DOES live with you and reports your every move back to them?

Apologies; our posts crossed (and you wrote a far better argument on the same topic.)