What’s the point in the NHS?

You answered your own question.
What happened between 15 years ago and today?
We voted the Tories back into power to destroy the NHS. Again.
When Labour got kicked out the NHS was at its highest ever approval rating after they spent their entire time in office fixing the wreckage the Tories had made if it
And repeat.
How can you not know this?

And is all that treatment free at the point of need?

No that’s not true. You were seen. The NHS works on the premise of need at the time. Life threatening down to bumps & bruises. Tendons take a long time to heal sometimes need surgery. I’d suggest going to your GP asking to be referred to an Orthopaedic Consultant. The NHS does a good job most of the time with what they have. They need more Doctors Nurses but most Trusts say the same they don’t have the budget due to monetary restrictions. If you had to pay for that X-ray it would have cost you about £3,000. Be grateful you don’t have to pay it you could always go Private.

@younknow anyways OP I hope you got yourself on Amazon and chat gpt for all that you need 😂😂 your attitude stinks which might be why you didn’t get the responses you like

My (grown up) son tore a ligament in his finger 2 months ago. Had an xray and a scan within 2 hours. Strapped up then a follow up appointment a few weeks later so no issues there.

You need to look at it as yes, you had a long wait, but you were seen for free, offered to be referred for physio and told where you could find some exercises sooner than that.

Admittedly I find being recommended chat gpt a bit strange, but no wonder NHS is struggling if people expect free crutches for a sprained ankle! Surely they should be kept for people who have broken bones?

According to google you would pay between £200 - £400 if you went private. Just buy a pair of £20 crutches if it's that bad!

People don't realise how fortunate we are to have an NHS.

@younknow @Dogdilemma01 I'm fairly sure crutches and scan wouldn't cost £1000's. I was in hospital in a European country shortly before we left the EU. Most of it was covered by being an EU citizen but crutches and a splint weren't, so I paid, and then reclaimed from insurance - small amount, from memory less than 100 euros in total. Alrhough the scans and x rays were covered, I saw the amounts on the invoice, and each scan and x ray individually were for modest amounts. A significant amount only because I had several. So I agree that a scan, bandage and crutches wouldn't be all that much.

Meaning sprained ligaments or fully torn? If fully torn and you had ankle instability, they would have referred you to fracture clinic for review plus MRI. If torn means sprained, then use crutches if you need to, wear an ankle support if you want to and otherwise crack on. It will be better within 2-3 months and no follow-up is needed. You also don't need to do specific exercises or have physio for a straightforward sprain.

I think you're reading too much into 'torn ligaments' and you probably just have a severe sprain, in which case the NHS has managed you completely appropriately.

Think that 3k is a bit ott, ime an mri can be around £500 privately (xray would be less) with a consultant orthopaedic appointment starting around £125, physio sessions £55-65 for 30 minutes. Op has received the standard acute NHS treatment. A NHS physio can refer for scans and to a hospital clinician if indicated by the injury not recovering as expected.

Oof. It’s great that some people have had positive experiences and I have too.

But in the last 3 months my mum has had two falls, the second time she was left on the ground for several hours waiting on an ambulance and was shaking and shivering with cold and pain. She had 2 broken bones. She then waited SIX hours in an ambulance before being seen.

The first time was worse as she was in a corridor waiting to be seen.

I seriously worry that if my mum had not had the assistance of passers by offering blankets and warmth etc that she could have experienced hypothermia. I also worry that if it had been something more life threatening that she would have died before being seen. And news reports confirm just that is happening all the time. I’m not surprised at all.

On the NHS you get the initial assessment for free. If it had been broken or needed surgery that also would be free. The NHS is no longer funded enough by the government to take more minor problems any further than this. If you’re not happy with this you can either pay privately or take out medical insurance. By contrast - In America you’d either need insurance just to be seen for the initial assessment or you’d have to have the means to pay privately. If you can’t afford the insurance you certainly can’t afford to pay private. For your problems you’d be paying approximately: Urgent Care Initial Visit & Exam: $100 – $250 (consultation fee) Ankle X-Ray: $85 – $300 (rules out broken bones) Brace, Splint, or Crutches: $30 – $100
Ankle MRI Scan (if ordered for severe ligament tears): $400 – $1,800 at an independent imaging center, or up to $3,000 – $4,500 if done via a hospital
Follow-up Doctor Visit: $50 – $150 per visit
Physical Therapy: $50 – $200 per session (often requiring 6 to 12 sessions if severe: $300 – $2,400 total) IF it turned out be a bad break and you needed surgery you’d be paying thousands for it. Plus extra for any nights you had to stay in hospital.
Thats the point of the NHS - medical care for serious problems is free. For everyone. Is it as good as it once was? No sadly not. Does it still provide care to keep people alive and deal with serious problems for free - yes! Remember you can still choose to pay privately or to have insurance here. But if you can’t afford it and have a real problem you’re still sorted on the NHS. It’s far from perfect but it’s still much better than many countries. And blame the government rather than the NHS that further help was unavailable for you because it’s them not providing the funding.

@Frugalgal has nailed it.

I was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis this year. In the 9 months since diagnosis ive been seen twice by my consultant, been seen by an ms physiotherapist, 2 hour long appointments with a designated MS nurse, been advised via an MS helpline, had a support letter written for my studies, have a specialist nurse specifically for the medication ive been prescribed, regular phone calls to check response to meds, have medication shipped directly to my house and all via the NHS. I feel incredibly lucky to have been diagnosed in a country with access to the NHS

I’m glad you didn’t go to A&E with a sprained ankle. I think you did ok getting a scan and speaking to a doctor in an urgent care centre. Your gp can follow up if you don’t heal as expected in the next few weeks.

Just because the care wasn’t ’enough’ for you doesn’t mean it wasn’t appropriate. It certainly wouldn’t qualify as urgent in my area.

You will be shocked at how expensive it will all become if you end up with no NHS and have a private insurance model like the US.

The tiny fraction of money you pay via taxes with not come close to covering it.

First you could choose to have no health insurance so you don’t have a monthly fee. But that means whenever you access health care you pay the full amount. So a GP appointment will be £200-300 each time. An x-ray £2000. An asthma inhaler £300 each.

Or you can choose to buy health insurance. If you choose a low monthly fee of £100-200 you will end up with large deductibles. That means that you will be liable for the first £5000 of treatments each year before the insurance starts paying out.

You can choose to pay for a premium health insurance (£500 a month) where the deductibles are very low so you only pay for the first £250 each year before the insurance company starts paying out.

But wait…the insurance company still doesn’t cover it all. You still pay a co-pay of £20 for a doctor visit, £30 for a specialist and £75 for A&E. Your asthma inhaler will only cost you £30 a month.

Your next battle is checking each time you want to use a doctor, specialist, or health service whether that particular doctor is ‘in network’ with your insurance company - if they are not in network you will have to pay full price.

For example my DH had an operation on his leg. For an in network surgeon the insurance covered it. If we had chosen a not in network doctor it would have been £17,000.

And even then he ended up working with an anesthesiologist who was not in network so we got a huge bill for his part of the operation.

Be very very careful what you wish for.

I've been having cancer treatment for 5 years , all free . I'm still here because of it . I'm eternally grateful for the NHS, the treatment, an injection, every three weeks apparently costs 3,500 a go in the USA .

I understand your frustration but a scan etc wouldn't benefit your sprain and you can refer yourself for physio .

The NHS is there to provide treatment and expertise to patients, irrespective of their financial /social status.
Treatments are developing and evolving all the time.
OP had an xray which confirmed that ankle wasn't broken. A scan wasn't necessary .
Our NHS is truly amazing!

Then pay!

And your xray will be reviewed in more detail by a radiologist in case there is a fracture which the initial
assessment missed and you need to be seen at a fracture clinic. But then if you work in orthopaedics you would know that.

You were seen by an expert who told you that you have a soft tissue and possibly ligament injury, both of which will heal with time and need nothing more than rest and over the counter pain medication. A support and crutches are not necessary so aren’t provided. When I fell and broke my hand I had X-rays, then surgery to put a screw in, then follow up physio and X-rays. Those tests and follow up were necessary so were offered and delivered on. The NHS isn’t perfect, it can be clunky, administrations seems antiquated, waits can be ridiculous and there are (as in any organisation) people who are a bad fit but it provides an essential service in ensuring that everyone has access to necessary and urgent treatment regardless of their financial situation. If you want to be able to pick and choose your services and get medically unnecessary diagnostic assessments then you need to pay privately.

What are you beefing about? You had an x-ray. Why do you want a scan as well if the professional didn’t consider it necessary? And you were told that a physio would only offer basic exercises that you could just as well research for yourself.
Sounds like the NHS did what was required. If you want to be coddled, go and buy it. But sometimes the best advice IS simply ‘take a paracetamol and wait until it gets better. ‘Bye!’

Everyone will tell you it's free at the point of demand so your complaining is unreasonable.

But they aren't German or Swedish or Dutch or French or Italian or Australian or Finnish or from all those other places which have a healthcare system that isn't steeped in parochial notions of national treasuredom.

The older I get the more scared I become of what will happen when I get sick.

I now pay for private insurance because I just don't trust that the NHS would diagnose me on time or give me a decent treatment if I became ill.

Which is ironic because that's what the NHS was set up to avoid; people not being able to access decent healthcare if they are too poor to do so.

Also in the US one of the worst things the insurance company do is deny coverage after you’ve had treatment sometimes.

You could go to the ER with a sprained ankle and have your x-ray. The doctor recommends the MRI you wanted.

The following week you get a letter from the insurance company saying their doctors has reviewed your case and found the MRI medically unnecessary despite being ordered by the ER doctor so they won’t pay for it and you end up with a bill for $2000-3000.

You were seen, assessed and xrayed within 4 hours, you haven’t broken any bones, just a sprain, which means you don’t need any treatment, just to rest the ankle and take pain relief. No torn ligaments so no need for any scans, or cast/boot.

The NHS is short on funds, scans cost hundreds, as do support boots. Sure, a set of crutches would be helpful, but most don’t get returned after use so again, that’s a lot of money disappearing. Contact your GP and ask for a physio referral and if it’s not improving you can get a follow up. Soft tissue injuries like this take longer to heal than broken bones, so be patient, rest, ice, pain relief (NSAIDS if you can take them) and time.

Everyone always pitches this as a choice between the NHS or the American health system.

There are so many other models which work better than both.

Sorry you are getting some nasty replies. I agree its absolutely not appropriate medical treatment.