What’s the point in the NHS?

...which is in the ballpark of 8% of GDP. Which is a lot of money, but healthcare is important, and expensive. Do you want doctors and nurses on minimum wage? Do you want to be denied crucial but expensive drugs?

From what I can easily tell, this is fractionally less than France, about 20% less than Germany, and about half of what the US spends (while still managing to be a shitshow).

It looks to me like the NHS does basically okay with relatively little. It's a long way from perfect, obviously.

For all those opining about underfunding, NHS and wider health services account for approximately 18%-24% of total government spending in the UK. That's a hell of a lot of money.

You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re just making stuff up now - it’s laughable 😂.

If you adopt an attitude the staff are within their rights not to treat you. Which is probably what happened.

When I was about 9 (almost 40 years ago!) I sprained my ankle VERY badly. I couldn't bear any weight, and my ankle and foot were black and blue. They were also HUGE - I couldn't get footwear on my foot and I had to wear my Dads socks to keep my foot warm because my own wouldn't fit.

I probably tore ligaments as I still have issues with the ankle today. But hey-ho I had an accident.

The NHS treatment I got was

• an x-ray to check it wasn't broken
• a tubigrip bandage to provide support
• a pair of crutches with the instruction to get off them as soon as possible and to move the joint as soon as possible to ensure future mobility
• the advice to stay off school and elevate and ice the ankle for the next few days to reduce the swelling
• a follow up appointment at the hospital a few weeks later to check all was healing fine

The advice and treatment I got about 40 years ago is the exact same advice that is on the NHS website.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/sprains-and-strains/

And it seems to be exactly the same as the treatment you received.

I imagine the difference in treatment between yourself and your Mum is due to severity of the injury - your Mums injury was likely much worse than yours.

It sounds like you have a sprain and possibly a small tear, rather than major ligament damage that your Mum might have experienced. If your Mum had almost or completely torn the ligaments away from their anchorage point, then surgery might have been needed to reattach them if the injury didn't heal in the rest period.

If you don't have that level of injury, then you won't get the same care.

C’mon peeps

yes the nhs does good stuff.

it doesn’t mean that no mistakes are made and that everyone gets the healthcare they are entitled to.

it’s well documented that waiting lists are much longer. It’s well documented that in certain areas (child and adolescent mental health) the nhs provision is so inadequate compared to demand for it by children and young people who are genuinely mentally ill (anorexia, suicide attempts etc) that it might as well be non existent.

i’m disabled and again it’s well documented that for certain groups of people (those with learning disabilities, those who are disabled generally) the level of care given in the event of the person needing it is woefully below minimum standards. There was a big report out on that recently.

like any system, the nhs meets some people’s healthcare needs. If you’ve been ill and you’ve been well treated then great. Plenty of people do not have the same experience which is why complaints are up and private GPs and private work generally is exploding.

I think there is a different mindset in US than in europe towards care of the population. US is essenrially a ' pioneer' mindset....look after yourself and if you dont, tough luck. Europe is a bit different.

I just hope farage and his cronies dont get their hands on it, that's all. I hope all those ppl who support him who wouldnt have a hope in hell of paying adequately for health support know what they are letting themselves in for. Same ppl who voted for Brexit and look how that has ended up.

How do you know what the mindset it?

Well that's good to hear ;)
I tore my ligament once with a bad sprain and ended up on crutches for a few weeks so felt looked after for the most part...but this was 30yrs ago

I wonder what health economists actually advocate

Then you should know better! Let the swelling reduce and ask them for a second opinion if it seems not to improve. Did you think that would impress your A and E doctor?

Well they haven’t as those that need physio get it. Zero problems to access it in my area and I live in an underfunded area.

That's not the point! The point is that things have deteriorated in even the last 10 yrs and they shouldn't have!!

Well is it before you know it's sprained and may be broken etc. Let's be honest most care is sub par whether urgent or not. You're lucky if you live in a less populated area where they actually provide adequate care

If only it was that simple. People need to stop abusing it and do more to look after their own health to bring costs down before we can pay less towards it. I'm not saying it couldn't be better managed but that needs money invested initially for savings in the long term.
More investment is needed in social care, mental health services, housing, health education to prevent and reduce the need for more intensive health care.
Mental health support, especially CAMHS, is reserved for those already severely unwell. Early support would prevent many needing costly inpatient care. Investment in housing would prevent illness (physical and mental) from homeless/damp housing/overcrowding. Bringing social care back in to the public sector and managing it properly would prevent illness and bed blocking as well as saving on costly care from agencies who are making huge profit and cherry picking the simplest packages of care.
This thread would have gone very differently without the title asking what the point of the NHS is. It's obviously got a use and we would be in a worse state without it, but there's definitely a conversation needed about how effective it is and how it can be improved.

Well that's a well balanced article...not!
I live in France and IME the healthcare system is excellent. Not without issues, particularly in the déserts médicaux, but our government is actively implementing measures to address them. Unlike UK governments over the past several decades
Lucky you! My sister who has lived in France for years, married to a French man, is fighting the French system because she can't get free cover for a long term condition that puts her at high risk of cancer, even though someone with the same condition only 50kms away had no problems.

Off course, if she lived back home, none of this would be an issue, she would get all the surveillance scans and treatment without any of these battles. She's been fighting the French administration for 3 years now and is exhausted with it.

'Next week - growing your own vegetables - but what about transwomen'?

Male puberty means transwomen have an unfair advantage when turning soil. All implements are designed for male physique, it's an outrage nature insists on pandering to the trans "cult" by persisting with heavy soil. Something something something Mother Nature "captured" by Stonewall.

Many years ago I nearly died from an ectopic pregnancy. The NHS saved my life. The NHS delivered my two sons. The NHS gave my mum life-lengthening chemotherapy so she had longer to enjoy her grandchildren. Unless you can afford American-style health insurance don’t knock the system especially over a sprained ankle.

Well then you will have known all the answers to your questions- won’t you…. if not perhaps one of your ‘team’ can help?!

Vote Reform, I should imagine...

Yeah right. Then you’d know NICE guidance for a sprain is pretty much what this doctor advised and does not include crutches and a boot. Can’t find NICE specific guidance for ligament damage but all the info I can find emphasises the importance of early mobilisation and weight bearing.

Fuck me, you really can shoehorn trans into absolutely anything, can't you?

'Next week - growing your own vegetables - but what about transwomen'?

The UK government is implementing measures to address issues.

You’re not medical or in any way closely connected to a orthopod team. You would know all these answers if you were. If you were closely connected, you would have asked (or complained) to your colleagues. Not mumsnet.

I simply don’t believe you.