AIBU to worry CMS deductions could push my son into crisis?

When I got cancer and couldn’t work for 2 years, my kids still needed food and school uniform and shoes and days out.

Obviously, as he wasn’t earning, technically his CMS should have been zero deductions from wages as he had none. But realistically, his ex was still covering for his inability to support his kids during that spell. He may not need to pay her back for holding it together for them all when he couldn’t, but he should.

But yes, somewhere the official maths aren’t mathing. My guess is you aren’t getting the whole story.

The CMS calculation is based on gross salary and the number of children being supported. A quick calculation tells me that that poster is essentially correct. £100,000 salary after allowable deductions would equal a CMS figure of approximately £320 per week - just under £1400.

So you didn't actually see the paperwork??
Seems both he and you need to slow down, read things properly and not panic.

For goodness sake.

She said - He paid the CMS and contributed additionally to household expenses to make sure the kids had what they needed.

In the post you quoted.

I thought you'd seen all the paperwork? So had you not actually seen it? Or just had misunderstood what it said as well?

Glad its not as bad as he thought, hopefully you sitting down with him will help him figure it all out.

Glad it has been sorted OP. I hope your son gets his mental health issues sorted, and manages to see his children. Regardless of the money, their mother should not be withholding contact. That punishes the children, and a father for the having the temerity to be unwell.

Did he inform CMS when he lost his job? His CM for those months would be zero. He needs to contact them with proof so they can recalculate what he owes if they don’t know.

Also I’d clarify if he was paying for 2 or 3 kids. It’s all very well being noble but he needs to focus on clearing the backlog. If he wants to give his ex more money in future then he can but for now, he needs to get back on an even financial keel.

Sounds like he isn’t in the best place mentally

It’s a bit more than struggling if he’s been sectioned due to a serious suicide attempt. The CMS should be made aware of the situation and he should be treated as the vulnerable person he is. It’s counter productive too because if he has no money to get to work he’ll be sacked and then no-one gets paid do they ?

Talk to CMS OP. I’ve posted a little upthread in more detail if you want to have a read of it, but if the deductions are going to cause him hardship he can negotiate with the CMS as regards the payment of arrears. They would rather put a manageable payment plan in place than risk the NRP dropping out of work. Your DS is clearly vulnerable and they should take that into account. It’s worth reiterating though, that if he owes arrears at any point then without a payment plan in place the CMS can essentially clean out his bank account leaving a nominal amount, and they don’t need a court order to do it.

If the mother struggled with her mental health and decided to opt out of feeding their kids I’m sure you’d have something to say. I’m sorry your son is struggling but I don’t know what you’re looking for here-for people to say it’s unfair or something? Perhaps you could lend him the money.

Absolutely this. I worked for them briefly when they were the CSA and the system wasn’t fit for purpose then. Rebranding as CMS clearly didn’t include an overhaul of their processes.

Er, they are notorious for making just this kind of mistake. If they are under the impression that he has been paid throughout the period of sickness then they will take back pay extending back through that period.

It would seem that CMS have issued lump sum deduction order direct to his bank account in this case. They can legally do this without going to court, to the extent where they can clean out the entire accessible balance on the account if it matches the total debt owed - the only circumstances in which this is allowed is if the bank account holds less than £100 at the interim stage or if the deduction would meant the amount in the account drops below the statutory minimum (around £55 plus admin fees). So for example if you have £1500 in your account and owe £1445 in arrears, they can take the lot in a lump sum.

I would suggest that in the first instance OP contact CMS as a matter of urgency and tell them that their actions are causing severe financial hardship to a vulnerable person and is putting their employment at risk. Ask for a breakdown of the figures and provide evidence of any discrepancy in their calculations - in this case evidence of sectioning and hospitalisation during which time DS was not paid. Then ask for a payment plan - CMS will opt for setting up regular
manageable instalments over draining an account if you engage early enough especially if the latter puts regular employment and continued payment at risk.

OP could also ask CMS to allocate any extra payments DS has made over and above the CMS calculation towards the debt. There are strict rules governing this and there needs to be evidence of payments made - it’s by no means guaranteed that extra payments would be eligible under CMS rules but the worst they can do is say no. I would also make the local MP aware of the situation and ask if there is anything they can do to expedite the situation given the circumstances.

He went to CMS because any money he was sending her she was using for her new boyfriends weed habit, and messaging us all saying he wasn't helping so he went to them purely so it was documented for anyone she went to saying he wasn't paying so he could prove otherwise. They don't speak as she cheated on him and then tried causing alot of issues within the family.

this can not possibly be right. 1- for them to take the money from him like that, they would have had to set up a deduction of earnings. This is taken from his pay check before it hits his own bank account and from personal experience is only set up when the non resident parent isn't complying with CMS. They would have given him a chance to set up a direct debit payment before it got to that point. (been there about 30 times with my ex who job hops!)
2. my ex earns a similar amount to your son, has THOUSANDS in arrears and I am getting no way near that amount for 2 kids! My kids are now adults so I no longer get the maintenance, I am just getting the arrears, but for 12k I am getting £200 a month in arrears payments- when I have question how little this amount feels, the CMS have maintained my ex needs enough to live on. The most I have ever got in 1 month for maintenance and arrears was £700.

Something isn't adding up. Either he is lying to you, CMS have fucked up, in which case he needs to go back to them and appeal their decision or he when he was giving her money through a private arrangement she was claiming CMS which was going unpaid and wracking up arrears. Whatever the circumstances. Something is very wrong here.

I think a lot of people here have absolutely zero experience with CMS

They are not fit for purpose on both sides. They regularly make massive errors in calculations, the portal to upload evidence of earnings if you do need to make a change is shite. You can basically never speak to a normal human. There is no way to make notes on your account. Everything takes forever to process and actually apply to a payment.

NRP should pay a fair amount, I am not disputing that. CMS is so crap though, and pretending that everything they say is gospel and the NRP must be telling lies is just nonsense.

Agree with others that the figures just don't add up. My ex dodged payments on purpose - was in work the whole time at a salary similar to your son's. He was ordered to pay £17.85 per month in arrears (he'd racked up about £6k).
In terms of claiming CMS from his wages, they can do this, but it takes a long time for them to actually get to this point...

He has to pay for his children. Zero sympathy for that.

Why are they going through CMS?

That’s great then op, if he’s not lying to you, all is well and a phone call/email to them that they are charging incorrectly and it’ll all be sorted out. No need to worry whatsoever. Im surprised he didn’t work it out himself, rather than panic and ask you for help, all the information is available online and he (or you) could have found out in two minutes that the figures weren’t correct.

Yeah, he pays for all their clothes, two of their driving lessons, all of their sports activities, gives them all money weekly for seeing their friends and takes them to do something one day every weekend? He'll also be buying all their first cars and paying for his eldest sons uni for two years in full so he doesn't get any student debt? He also takes them on multiple trips abroad and pays their mum double at Christmas? They went through CMS because his ex wife slept with someone else and then took a load of phones out in brothers name and sold them all to fund her new boyfriends drug habit- so yes CMS was the best stable way for him to pay her because she walks round telling everyone he doesn't help her so now its documented?

This.

@CandyCrushLevel14809 I knew it would be something like this. A family member went through something similar. He still contributes more but kids are old enough for their own bank accounts. So he will CMS what is needed and then give more directly to kids + purchase trainers / clothes / pay school trips - whatever the child says they need.