Where do you think Jewish people come from?

And if the italians had originally come from the UK and maintained a population here since then, you may have a point.

Indeed. It's complicated.

And on that basis England really belongs to Italy.

May I be the first to welcome our Italian overlords.

@ginkhao ,

‘If you were brought up Jewish, then you would know that the ties to Israel are not because that's where our genes origanted from 2000 years ago.
Did you fast on tisha b'av to remember the destruction of the temple? Did you break a glass at your wedding to remember the destruction of Jerusalem at your happiest monent? Did you turn towards Jerusalem when you said the Amida? Did you sing "Next year in Jerusalem" at your seder?

It's only people with a passing knowledge of Judaism who would claim that the Jewish connection to their homeland is just about genes.’

I find that post somewhat problematic.

I am a secular Jew, agnostic (towards atheist) by belief. However I am genetically 100% Jewish and I grew up in a fairly Jewish community, so I have spent Seder dinners with friends and know of the ‘Next Year in Jerusalem’ toast from spending Rosh Hashanah in Israel with relatives when I was much younger. I am sorry if I am not a good enough Jew for you, but I am Jewish and have as much right to a view on Israel as you do.

(And genes really matter when you test for genetic disorders!)

Jewish people (very rightly) object to being conflated with Israelis or being pro Netanyahu and picked on because of the actions of Israel. Equally, though, the diaspora do have a responsibility to condemn the actions of Israel when they are wrong.

The problem with the Jewish peoples ‘unique’ connection to the holy land is that, in one day, in Jerusalem, you can (as I did) walk the stations of the cross and visit Temple Mount and see the Haram Al-Sharif, the third holiest place in the world for Muslims in the same place as where Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac and Solomon built the first temple! Religion creates way too many conflicts.

I was quite shocked at the Moslem community’s response to 9/11 at the time, and some after 7/10. So I think the same applies to Israel’s annexation of Gaza and ethnic cleansing in the West Bank. Too many within the Jewish community won’t unequivocally condemn racists like Smotrich and Ben G’vir (despite Ben G’vir having a criminal conviction in Israel for racism).

The latest Jewish thread on AIBU contains the usual ignorant details (or lack of it).

Well the state can’t because neither Jewish nor Muslim nor Christian religious leaders (in Israel) will perform them. But once married, gay couples (or intermarried couples who also can’t marry there. In fact my parents had to fly to the states to get married as they couldn’t provide proof that they were both Jewish. They needed their parents’ marriage certificate and my father’s parents couldn’t provide that due to a complicated and boring story) have all the same rights and responsibilities as anyone else, including being able to adopt children etc.

You may not (they do cut off somewhere), but she probably would. Most countries do give ancestral visas or passports to those with at least one grandparent who was proveably from there.

Haha, now we're descending into the bit where you critcize tone and style as well as my character and intelligence because you can't actually answer the points I've made with any substance.
The Jews weren't forcibly displaced from Judea very nicely either. In fact, i would say it was quite a bit worse from them from the historical records.

So you, yourself, don't have an intelligent answer to the pp's point.

‘I don't give a damn where your religion came from, I care that you're brutally murdering, torturing and raping people including children’

Ive not murdered, tortured or raped anyone ever. Are Russian people living in the UK accused of murdering innocent Ukrainian civilians including babies? No. Because they aren’t responsible for the mad dictator invading Ukraine. There are so many people saying Jews deserve to be attacked, abused and persecuted because of the civilian deaths in Gaza. My family have spent their working lives in the UK in the caring professions. We are in the main
, health care workers and teachers. We are not responsible for what is going on in Gaza.

When did Israel legalise gay marriage?

The problem is both sides have a legitimate claim to the land. Jews have always been there, but as an ethnic minority in a land mainly populated by Arabs.

It's like two people fighting over one football. The only solution is to share it, but that can't happen because too much hatred has built up. And so it goes on.

Well, applying the same logic, the Palestinian refugees in Gaza, WB, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and elsewhere no longer have a claim or any right of return. Since as soon as you leave where you lived for more than one generation, you lose all rights to that place.

What debate?

Yeah, Brits (and Ottomans before them) did exactly the same in mandartory Palestine. They didn't populate it either, just administrated it. The only difference with India was that it was officially a mandate for Palestine and not a colony.

No, the partition wasn't decolonization but it was a consequence of it through the establishment of India (and Pakistan) .

Exactly this. I think you have successfully won the debate.

British colonial rule of India was a direct rule model where no masses of British colonists were sent to settle down and populate the country as with the US, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. They merely sent officials and administrators to govern the indigenous population.

If you are referring to the partition of India, that was not a decolonisation.

The actions of the IDF speak otherwise. The opposite, in fact.

From their mother’s vagina, or c-section. Same as everyone else.

India was decolonized and yet non colonialists were displaced during that process.

Yep.

It’s not decolonisation because the Palestinians being displaced are not colonists.

I don’t think anyone thinks that. There have always been Jews in Israel (Levant) since 1500BC. But it is true that there has also been a mass immigration of Jews from around the world that carry with them the genetic signatures of where they settled after the diaspora as well as the genetic signatures from the Levant. It’s why we are an ethnicity and a religion. The thing is that most Palestinian Christians and Muslims are also indigenous to the Levant with generic signatures going back to Canaanites and Israelites. Some of the Jewish people who stayed will have converted to the religions of each wave of conquerers. Genetically, Palestinians and Israelis are the closest of all the variants in the Levant. Syrians, Lebanese, Jordanians all are less alike. This is a conflict of cousins.

The only "evidence" of this I have seen has been thoroughly debunked (including doctors pointing out that an x-ray showing a bullet cannot be possible as there was no other damage) unless you've got a reliable source you can share? Its bad enough when children are hurt and injured without making up more extremes to fit a certain narrative.

Israel is the ultimate decolonization.. Anyway RTFT. Your ridiculous point has been answered already.