Why are there so many charlatans in the Window Trade?

I had a new front door fitted in August. I picked a local company with good reviews that I had used decades previously for windows.

The boss did the quote, told him colour and glass decor and showed a picture of the type of door. He measured up and gave me the quote there and then and I confirmed the next day to have the door replaced.

I remember well the days of quotes where they stayed hours trying to get you to accept there and then after a call to "my manager" to see what they could do to reduce the price.

Shysters!

We’ve just had our front door replaced, and it was mind-blowing how crap this industry is. Even when they bothered to respond to enquiries, it was all ‘can’t talk to the wife without the husband’ and the starting at a high price and negotiating down. It was like being back in the 80s.🤣 It might even have been all well and good if they’d actually had their showrooms open at the weekend for the hours they advertised on their own websites, but we’d drive there and they’d be closed.

Eventually found a relatively new husband & wife start-up who were fabulous. Happy to assume I might have been able to have a discussion with my husband when he wasn’t at work and agree what we were ordering, so I could go in all on my little own and order.

I got the biggest company in our area to quote for our small house - £16K. I wanted to laugh but suppressed it and said we'd be getting other quotes. The guy looked totally taken aback that we weren't accepting his quote there and then.

Got a small local company to do it for £6K.

Because he has no way of knowing whether a job is even possible (and if it is possible, whether he can or wants to take it) until he goes and sees the property for himself.

He works alone so some jobs are simply too big and complex.
Some will take too much time and he can't book people in for 3-6 months (and then they don't want to wait that long).
Some can only be done in decent weather.
Some require the customer to arrange (for example) a skip, or scaffolding, or other trades to come in.

He's been working since he was 14 (for his dad originally, now runs his own business) - he knows what he's doing, has never had a complaint and has an excellent reputation, but he's not psychic and has no way of knowing whether a job is worth it (or even possible) until he visits the home and then sits down and works through the quote afterwards.

He won't know the details of the job until he sees it, i.e. accessibility, scale, etc.

Perhaps more importantly, he won't know who he'll be dealing with until he meets them in person. Some tradesmen, rightly, pick up on "bad vibes" from potential customers, i.e. awkwardness, arrogance, likely to be a pain in the arse, and either just walk away without providing a quote or quote a high price in the hope they don't want him, or if they do, at least he's getting extra money to put up with the likely problems/hassle of a difficult customer.

My first ever job (1986, age 16) was door to door sales for windows. I lasted two weeks and the closest to a sale i got was being offered a cup of tea by a couple who clearly thought I was far too young and vulnerable to be knocking on strangers doors at 7pm in December.

I would be dubious of the very cheap quite too. Use reviews and word of mouth before choosing someone.

It used to be the case that they would make an outrageous quote that you would refuse and then they would 'call the boss to see if we can reduce it', lo and behold, it would come down 10-20% immediately! Someone once said to us Never let them sit down and don't give them tea/coffee.

Not sure how they think they can get away with it. Their patter is easy to see through.

I was curious and had someone over to quote (big regional company). I had to sit through a PowerPoint presentation before he could provide a quote. Couldn't answer some pretty basic questions and didn't inspire much confidence. He also asked if I had a husband as he couldn't quote unless we were both there 🤦🏻‍♀️ should've kicked him out at that point in hindsight. Anyway for a bog standard 3 bed detached with a front and back door, the starting quote was £30k...eventually got down to £19k, but I obviously said no thanks. From experience I know my inlaws were won over by a sales pitch and 'discounts' and spent way over the odds. My parents on the other hand have somehow found someone to do a 3 bed semi for under £5k, so it must be possible. If the big companies are all in cahoots though then many people must be taken in if all their quotes come out similar.

Well, he's been in business almost 30 years and is booked solid with a waiting list, so it clearly hasn't harmed him yet

Also, how is he supposed to know if he's interested in a job until he goes along and sees it? He's not psychic - he needs to go and see the property and what needs doing before he knows what it will cost and how much work it will involve.

I’ve encountered the same in a mobile phone shop. I refuse to buy anything like that on principle without thinking about it first.

He's a fool then.

Where i live there's now a local whatsapp group to discuss trade quotes. Over quoters (and various other rogue traders/cowboys) get picked up and identified fast, and they dont get any work in our village again. Its an affluent village with plenty of good work.

If you arent interested in a job, be decent a dont waste someones time going along to quote for it.

Actually, this!

Yes, teachers HUGE cowboys wtf 😒

Which of those professions are selling household services? I don't understand the comparison between high pressure/dodgy sales tactics and say nursing

I dont know what you're hinting at but maybe you're using the word charlatan incorrectly

Why does he waste both his and the person's time if he doesn't want the work

Wouldn't a normal response be simply say he's fully booked?

I worked for one of the big names in the industry 25 years ago and it was definitely commission only for the sales reps then. You got sent on a weeks training course where you were taught such bangers as "9 noes make a yes" and then got a small basic wage for your first month, after that it was commission only.

I may be misremembering but I think that even the telesales and door knocking teams were comission only.

Dodgy is mild to describe what went on in that industry, I have never met such a bunch of dishonest people both professionally and personally in my life.

Needless to say, I didn't last long in that job.

I'm not sure if this is still true, or even legally possible but I'm sure my Dad worked on a commission only basis. He didn't get any basic salary. That must surely make the business corrupt? Or at least open to corruption?

There are lots of variables on UPVC windows, the quality of the double glazing, density of the UPVC, thickness of uprights and quality of the locks.

The fitting and sealants used around the frames also makes a difference. After a lot of research I became quite expert and could then discuss with the salesmen what they were proposing to fit.

We went with a local guy who had been trading for 10 years. He wasn’t the cheapest but crystal clear about exactly what he was fitting.

There are plenty of charlatans among doctors, surgeons, nurses, teachers, cleaners, chefs, etc. etc.

Yes they are awful.

Safe Style Windows are cowboys according to people who have worked there.

I had someone come round from a company who'd knocked on the door (1st mistake) and I said to them we were looking at replacing our front door in the new year. They then sent someone round and I realised fairly quickly that he was going to try the hard window sale tactics with us. First a presentation about the quality their company offered- fine and I was open to hearing about why their doors were better than off the shelf ones from a DIY store (he did make the mistake of telling us you can get those for about £400). DH kept walking out .to sort the kids as it was taking a long time and I realised he had to stay for the spiel to continue.

Then he started to say he could offer us a great discount if we did an advertising board outside our house as it was in a great location and he would call his boss to get approval. My great sank as I knew this was a classic tactic. I could hear him in the corridor telling 'his boss' all about our amazing house location. There was no way we would be advertising this company.outside our house! I knew this would be a fake phone call.

Then he came back and said what would you say to £9k. We said no way and then it became what would you pay if we did the deal today. We explained that we wouldn't do the deal today, we just wanted a quote. He then phoned his boss again and then said what would you say to £100? DH said no we weren't ordering anything today and said that was that and the salesman was pissed off we weren't going to say yes to £100. It was ridiculous. As he left he said 'thanks for wasting my time". I didn't say anything but his company wasted his time, we were very clear that we wanted a quote but that was all. There was no way we were going to be pressured without shopping around. If he'd given us a sensible quote we might have considered them even if it was a bit higher than others. It must work on some people though as that seems to be how they train their staff.

I was trying to work out what was going on with tha £100 and read that that was a way to get you to agree to pay £100 a month for so many months eg four years would be 4.8k And that the reason for the original quote being so high is that salesman can keep a proportion of anything they charge over the ceiling price.for the product.