Christmas leave priority

Well obviously someone without children could not be an entitled parent?

Yes. Very.

No it shouldn’t be parents first!
If you work in a job where you are required to work over Christmas, and then decide to have children, it’s completely your responsibility to work out childcare.
if you already have children and go to work in a job where you are required to work over Christmas, it’s once again your responsibility to work out childcare

it is absolutely not the responsibility of colleagues to work over holidays so you don’t have to….and I say this as a mother of 3 myself.

I work in the public sector and our Christmas leave is rota’d. There are two massively entitled parents in my team who kick up a huge fuss every year it’s their turn to work over the period.

They should go and work somewhere they don’t have to take turns with childless people to get Christmas off, frankly.

Their selfish attitudes are part of the reason why I’ll never offer to swap. The other part being that I value quality time with my family equally as much as they value time with theirs.

Also, having chosen not to have kids, I NEVER take time off in the school holidays and I’m perfectly happy to work all through the summer, Easter and half-term holidays so they can, absolutely, suck it up and take turns having every other Christmas off.

Also, some people can’t have kids….

Would you be so willing to defend their “right” to time off on their celebration day?
There's been plenty of discussion on here about people of non-Christian faith, or those not bothered about Christmas, volunteering to cover Christmas, and those who do want Christmas covering Eid etc. So yes. Because that right comes along with some notion of give and take.

As for defining the right to a Christmas, yes, obviously it's not a legal right, and that's not what I meant. My point was that no one's Christmas is more important than the next person's.

Of course. However, having children remains a choice, even while producing broad social value. Many choices, e.g. starting a business, volunteering, caregiving for elderly relatives, etc., also generate positive societal benefit without triggering direct cash payments to the person making the choice.

Getting back to OPs original point. Is it fair to give parents/grandparents greater advantage over choosing a holiday day? No, it's not. Christmas day is a public holiday, not a holiday 'for children and their parents', although some people think it is. That doesn't mean that society shouldn't support child rearing.

Of course they couldn't be a parent. But I'm interested in why the viewpoint is dismissed and belittled as entitlement. I know a lot of child free people who agree with me, and I held the same view before I had kids, so in my life it is a pretty normal opinion to have, and not just parents who think so.

We don't dismiss other similar opinions as entitled, either. We don't say that e.g. veterans are entitled for wanting their concessions, we don't say that nurses are entitled for wanting a pay rise, etc etc. We recognise their contribution to society and listen to them when they say what would help them.

If you are spending Christmas with people who you need to travel to, that also implies a certain need for priority. Especially if you travel by public transport. If you live with your Christmas people you can at least go home and see them at the end of your shift. If you're a 20 something living in London with no car and your parents are hours away you're screwed.

If you are spending Christmas with people who you need to travel to, that also implies a certain need for priority. Especially if you travel by public transport. If you live with your Christmas people you can at least go home and see them at the end of your shift. If you're a 20 something living in London with no car and your parents are hours away you're screwed.

Please don’t get me wrong, my point isn’t purely about kids, the bigger picture is that there are some in society whose needs do outweigh those of a standard adults. Your case of wanting to be with your Godmother a good example.

That’s built on the premise that for society to work, we need to recognise the needs and constraints of others and do what’s right.

edit: forgot to add, that ridiculous re. school sports day! I’d take a dim view of any employer that had that attitude.

No way should grandparents be prioritised over parents, and no way should parents be prioritised over non parents either!! That’s an absolute joke and should be illegal to do that.

What does needing “healthy and educated children” have to do with their parents working, or not, over Christmas? Tell me, how does having a parent working over Christmas affect the health or education of a child?

Well no, it wouldn’t be entitled if a child free person said parents should get the leave.

entitled means “acting or feeling as though you deserve special treatment simply because of who you are”.

so by definition, it wouldn’t be entitled for someone to think someone else should have something because it wouldn’t fit in that definition.

still doesn’t make it fair though. One child free person doesn’t have the right to speak for all child free people

I have found that were ever you work there is always one parent that takes the piss.

The ones that want christmas off because its their first year (at work).
Then because its their child's first christmas.
Then because they have two kids and because its one of the kids first etc.
Then its the sports days, nativities etc.

Always with a promise of giving you the time back and being extremely difficult about it.

The current one has had the last three off.
The last one they got a warning for as they weren't rota'd off.

And still wonders why no-one will swap shifts with them and if they manage to find away to get christmas off this year I'm fairly sure that their will be official complaints.

As for this very stupid idea, it would mean that they wouldn't work christmas for ten years.

Ok it doesn’t seem fair but you’re not actually being expected to work Christmas Day. It’s a 5 hour drive and you finish at 5 so either drive straight away and get their at 10 and have full Xmas day or have Xmas eve at home, get up for breakfast and presents at 7 and drive between 8 and 1 to arrive in time for Xmas lunch. Drive back on the 28th

i am APPALLED by some of the people on this thread who think because they have children they are a priority. What about people with terminally ill family members where it could be their last Christmas together? What about those who otherwise will be totally on their own at Christmas? There are so many reasons Christmas is important to people.

Absolutely. This is the kind of situation I frequently dealt with as a manager. People with children living locally complaining about working Christmas day, when they were happy for other folks - a long distance from home, sometimes in another country - to work, then go home to an empty flat.

Correction: *child might have to do without on a special occasion.

I honestly couldn’t look myself in the mirror if I have your views.

Perhaps another way to consider it, a thought exercise: could you honestly envisage yourself telling a child how they can’t have Christmas with their parents because you want the day off? I suspect deep down you know you’d find that difficult as that should point to what is “right” in the situation.

I mean, some grown adults for even risk their lives to save unknown children, you won’t even sacrifice a day off….!

This is a ridiculous proposal …

People who want guaranteed time off with their kids over Christmas should chose to work in roles that don’t require cover 5,6,7 days a week. If you go into retail, police, fire, some NHS roles (hospitals esp), other public facing roles open 5-7 days a week, prison service etc etc then you know sometimes you will have to work over Christmas, Easter, NY etc and that should be rotated so everyone has to work regardless of children etc. Obviously in the case of a terminally ill parent / sibling / child exceptions should be made but that would be super unusual.

There are loads of jobs where the entire team can take off Christmas and it’s fine (and in some cases encouraged as it’s more efficient for everyone to be out than some in and some out). People who want to pick their leave dates every year need to work in a job that allows that level of flexibility!

Any job that told me parents and grandparents were going to be prioritised over me for leave would be receive my resignation faster than they could say “Santa Claus”!

Lol

How can you be so bad at booking leave? Have to admit, I’ve not once in my career had leave rejected (I’ve voluntarily cancelled due to work issues coming up, but never had it cancelled).

how can you struggle to book leave? It can’t be kids holidays as there’s only a few of them per year

It should be rotation. It matters not if you have young kids or not (I say this as a mother to a 4 year old) it HAS to be fair.

Luckily my work shuts down over Christmas but when I was 20 I had to work over it. Work rota each year
I actually gave mine up because at that age I only cared about getting pissed on new years eve...!

That’s built on the premise that for society to work, we need to recognise the needs and constraints of others and do what’s right.

I think this is the basis of good management though, to listen to what everyone asks for to begin with, then if there are clashes, carefully look at everyone's wants and needs to determine the fairest way to meet those needs.

OPs bosses obviously can't be arsed with any of that, and are presumably parents themselves, so are essentially gifting themselves priority.

I’d look at this as positive discrimination.