Christmas leave priority

I think first come first served is the fairest.

I can see it now. ‘Here’s a recording of a WhatsApp video we had with the grandchildren on Christmas Day. We had a lovely time watching them opening their presents, from our holiday apartment in Madeira.’ Proof we interacted with them.

I don't agree with first come first served, I think (as has been said) that it needs to be rotated.

One bloke at my good friend's workplace makes the excuse that he won't work Christmas as his mum died on Christmas Eve night (around 8pm,) and it upsets him too much to work Christmas. He is now in his late 50s and his mum has been dead for 20 years, and he still refuses to work Christmas.

Every manager is scared of him for some reason, so he always gets his own way. It's super annoying. Yes you have every right to be upset at working Christmas if your mum died at Christmas, especially if you were only 37-38 at the time, but still using this excuse 20 years later. Come on! (He has 2 DC who were around 8 or 9 when his mum died.)

Before I had children my old boss would always say 'when you have children it will be your turn having christmas off'.
Like you it p#ssed me off. I'm my parents child.
I do have children now and funnily enough I don't work for the same company, where it is first come first serve.

Sorry but I would see that as your problem to solve, not something to use every year at the expense of childfree colleagues. Even if you are a single parent, you know a year in advance it’s going to be an issue so I would expect you to ask grandparents, aunts, cousins, siblings etc and try everything possible rather than just saying childcare not open therefore you never have to work a Christmas.

I’ve never seen it like that before.
i have a small team and is that was in place it would mean the work would be left to just me & a someone who doesn’t have children or live near any family (very lonely for them)

We manage it fairly between us. We asked it’s unfair if everyone just assumes they can have half term etc Just because they submitted in January 1st. I ask my team (including me) to make sure it’s all fair. Other wise I wouldn’t be able to get time of when my older children now are on leave .

Last year I had Christmas leave, this year I’m covering it. Next year we will expect it to be shared across the team.

When I was much younger I worked in a company that Christmas Day was just another day…and was meant to be randomly drawn. One person always seemed to get picked as did the majority of the managers. I left as it was never fair - especially as the same rules applied for New year.

Well if that adult with a dying parent doesnt have children they wont be able to spend their last xmas with their parent as they would have the lowest priority .

I used to manage a team which had quite a few staff who wanted time off for Ramadan, Eid, Diwali, etc. so the agreement was that they could take time off for their religious festivals but had to cover Christmas - in particular the "Twixtmas" gap.

So people who were unable to have children are not a priority?
The only way to make leave fair is to make it the same for everyone.

How is it unlawful? What PC is being disadvantaged?

Im genuinely keen to hear views. Ive been trying to think up ways it could be stretch to discrimination or discrimination by association, but im honestly struggling.

your children are not my problem

😂😂😂😂 So if you have a 7-year-old.... You're bottom of the pile? As this so-called policy states under seven or over seven 😂😂😂😂

What do they do for foster parents, or those who have guardianship,but aren't the parents.... Or those who's child turns 7 on Christmas day?

The former I would also see as a priority. I suggested this in the post above yours.

Young children and dying relatives are obviously a time limited thing. Most of us won't have either for most of our lives.

Exactly. Just lock the annoying toddlers in a room with a bottle of water and some scraps of food and go to work, they should be fine.

The only fair way is to apply exactly the same rules as any other leave requests...

Yeah it's awful. There are tons of reasons other than having young children that justify why someone would want and deserve leave over Christmas. The fact they've thrown "or grandchildren" in there reeks of one of the decision makers being a grandparent themselves who wants to see their grandkids, or there being a PITA staff member who is exceptionally vocal/pushy about this.

I think the only fair way to do it is via a system of taking into account previous years, those who already worked Christmas are moved to the top of the leave priority list, and then resolve any remaining clashes via random draw.

Nah, why should parents get priority?

This is just basic decency
How about basic decency towards people with family members for whom it's their last Christmas?
Or people who desperately wanted children and couldn't have them?

Yes, that's right. I wouldn't have minded working more in that era of life either. I would be reluctant to work them in the future I think as I have aging parents etc but I would do it if it was required and it stopped a young child spending Christmas morning with their parents.

You can't state that it's never fair as it's a subjective judgement. The same goes with someone wanting to spend a last Christmas with a dying relative which again I would view as a priority over an adult just wanting a regular Christmas off. You might not feel that way but neither view is wrong or right objectively.

No

Is that legal? (genuine question)

I have young kids and I work every Christmas. It is what it is.

As an employer thats ridiculously discriminatory.

My job involves working all year round (healthcare) so we rotate so it's fair. One year someone gets Christmas Day off but they work it the year afterwards etc

That is the only fair way

Is there a cut off age for parents and grandparents with children/grandchildren over 7 or could a parents with a 40 year old child still get Christmas leave priority?

This Christmas leave policy is badshit and discriminatory because childless employees will never be eligible for any leave over Christmas apart from the Bank Holidays.

I'd be contacting ACAS or your union about this.