Christmas leave priority

TLDR, I have 3 kids (well one is now 18 so doesn’t really count) and I agree with you that priority shouldn’t be given to children as people without children still deserve the time off. But your comments about them not knowing the date and not giving them an advent calendar are ridiculous. maybe your niece doesn’t know the date but most kids do know as they are told the date in school every day and like everyone else have an understanding of time passing.

First come, first served is a horrible system for Christmas and isn't fair.

I echo PP - a rota system is the fairest, so if you worked one year, then you get first dibs on annual leave the following year.

I do think Christmas is particularly important if you have young children - but that really only relates to the jobs where you have to work Christmas Day. The vast majority of people don't enjoy working on Christmas Day but I think it's particularly hard when you have young kids.

If you're in a job where you get Christmas Day and Boxing Day off anyway, I don't think the rest of the holidays are more of a priority if you have DC.

When I worked in an office (I'm self-employed now) I always volunteered to cover the phones so the parents could go home early on Christmas Eve. We were technically supposed to be open until 5pm but we were allowed to go early as long as one person stayed to cover. I get why Christmas Day and Christmas Eve is so special when you have young children and I think it's a bit sour to suggest otherwise.

But as most people get Christmas Day/Boxing Day off anyway, I don't see why parents - and certainly not grandparents - should be prioritised for the rest of that period.

Also, I was flexible the rest of the year - I always covered the later shifts so that parents could leave early to pick up their DC from school. I think it's really hard to have children and work, and we need children for the future!! It just feels as if we've lost all sense of community sometimes.

I like this question! I don't claim to have all the answers, but off the top of my head, I'd like to see mandatory school-based holiday clubs, expansion of the unpaid parental leave allowance (and allow single days for all children - but there would have to be some provision for small businesses I guess), and more flexibility around authorised absences/flexi schooling. I like the changes that have already been made re. asking for flexible working and WFH. SureStart centres could be brought back as well, and built on.

Going by many of the posters on this thread, by us who don't have children bending over backwards to facilitate their wants. And in many cases it IS wants rather than needs. I'm sure not all the parents wanting priority over Christmas are either single, or their partner also has to work Christmas Day, so childcare isn't an argument for the majority here.

These threads come out every Christmas time, and I've actually missed seeing the usual "but Christmas is magic & we can't miss those few years of watching our younger kids waking up to see if Santa has been". But there's still plenty of time, it's only September, for them to state that their want to watch every year is more important than anyone else.

I once worked for a company that would never allow Annual Leave if there was a Bank Holiday in the week, so not only Christmas but Easter, May Day Bank Holidays, August Bank Holiday, etc. It was very tight-fisted in the sense that there was no flexibility in any aspect of the job, but yet they wondered why people left on the dot of 5.00 pm even if the phones were ringing. Had they been more flexible, people would have stayed to take the call. It was the MD’s baby and he couldn’t understand why people weren’t totally in love with the company as he was. Another thing was that you had to list every business phone call you made and the MD’s PA spent one day per month checking (from a print out), that you had listed the call! You were never allowed to make a personal call ((pre mobiles), which meant you had to go out at lunchtime and try and find a telephone box.

Once upon a time I did chop and change my plans for parents, changed shifts, took the shitty days off, worked every Sunday to cover them so they could have family time, covered sickness, worked late so they could attend parents evening, plays, concerts, brownies... i could go on.

When I asked for a bit of reciprocal help?
Crickets.
To cover me for my Grandad's funeral?
Couldn't possibly.

So now, I don’t. Nothing. You want Christmas off? Best organise yourself better then.

I don't even refer to just one set of coworkers, or just one period of time. This has always been the case.
So, sorry, but no.
The village is fucked off with being taken advantage of.

You don't feel society supports parents enough? 🤔

In what other ways could society do so, in your view?

OMG someone break out the Mumsnet bingo cards. 😂

And that's before I even get started on 'Your elderly parents don't need childcare' - no, not literally childcare, but is it really news to you that a lot of people are caring for their elderly parents, frequently not knowing if this Christmas will be their last? Do they not matter?

And another thing (as another of your idiotic posts mentions 'when you have children') - I take it you realise not everyone does? Are those who never have children second-class citizens in your narrow little worldview?

Re. the old age care/tax thing, we still need people though (unless society will be run by AI robots, I guess). That's the point people are making - that we do need people to have children, not just pay into the system financially.

I have worked since age 13. I will likely work until my 80s.
Surely, at some point in this, I should get one Christmas Eve off?

I don't mean to be an arse OP, but if you are waiting for other people to prioritise you in life you're going to be waiting a bloody long time.

You could choose not to work for a shit employer, you could choose to work somewhere that shuts down at Christmas, you could choose to use your holiday entitlement in the 39 weeks of the year that are readily available to you at your current workplace so you don't feel as frustrated, you could choose to be self employed and set your own days and hours, you could choose to live closer to your family, you could choose to see this situation as a bad employer rather then use it as a platform to blame people for having children and wanting to take time off at the same time as their children.

Life is all about choice, no one is forcing you to be a martyr, If you are genuinely considering working for this particular employer until you are in your 80s then more fool you to be honest.

We must be, but that's ok 😁

Gosh you’ll have 4 days off together from 5pm on Christmas Eve!
That’s incredibly lucky, any many people do not have anything like that off. No nhs staff can take any leave over Christmas to new year, and shop workers are expected to work too.
You are being very whingey in my view.

This thread is batshit. I don't see how anyone can think you're unreasonable @putmeonthebackburner And I am a mum of 2 DC. (Had them in my late 20s.) Of course parents want time off at Christmas with their children, but to suggest child free people should be treated as lesser (and not as deserving of Christmas time off!) is outrageous.

And wtf are grandparents in there for? (On your workplace list!) Why do THEY need time off?

Reminds me of a bloody woman who used to work at my DH's place. She was part time (3 days a week,) and has a daughter in her mid 30s, and she looked after her daughter's little boy for around 16-18 hours a week, whilst the daughter went to work, or went out to play badminton, go swimming, go to a hobby group, or when she went shopping etc...

This woman worked Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday at the place that is open 7 days a week. (6 to 7 hours a day) A new manager started, and told her she had to do her share of weekends, and she went batshit, refusing to do it, because she looks after her grandson every Saturday!

She couldn't understand that no-one gives a shite about her 'grandparent duties!' He wasn't HER son, he was her daughter's son. She also had a son herself who was about 7 years younger than her daughter, so she had already had mummy privileges for some years, now she wanted them as a grandmother.

tl;dr, the manager dug his heels in and she ended up leaving.

Yeah this thread has got a bit nuts now having read OP's replies at least. So you're not even having to work Christmas day OP if I understand that correctly? You have a husband/partner and loving parents who are still around and happy to host you over Christmas?

Sorry to be blunt but you need to suck it up, so many of us don't even have family or parents left. Seeing them a couple of days later given that per your logic, you've chosen to live 5h away from them and took a job knowing the leave requirements, is it really that big a deal?

I still think your workplace's whole priority list is pretty ridiculous but so have your replies been now. Maybe the parents of small children also have parents of their own they'd like to drive to and see..? Framing it as you're in the most victimised situation and parents could "just" celebrate Christmas on a completely different day is just sounding silly.

I think there's an argument (I'm not a lawyer so I'm not certain) that it could be considered indirect disability discrimination. If you can't have children as a direct consequence of a protected disability then you would never be eligible. Equally, an older worker might flag age discrimination if they hadn't and would never have children or if their children were older. I'm curious about other protected characteristics too, like sexuality. Obviously, gay couples can have children but it's not as straightforward. Potentially, there could be an issue there? But I'm just spitballing. It seems like perhaps an attempt to benefit one group could inadvertently disadvantage others.

Why does ‘society’ mean other colleagues though? Sure, childcare provision could be much better and cheaper but I just don’t buy that your colleagues have any obligation or moral responsibility to make accommodations for your life choices. Most times there likely is a solution (in the form of other parent, relatives etc) but of course the parent would rather have Christmas off like everyone would so they trot out the childcare excuse. Even for single parents where the father is absent (barring special cases like one parent has passed away), it was your choice, why should others have to accommodate you at the expense of their own happiness? Saying others children will look after them in old age is a bit ridiculous really as the majority of childfree people contribute way more in tax than they’ll ever take out in benefits, that’s just a fact. Even more so for today’s workers when generous state pensions will not be a thing by the time they retire.

As a nurse of nearly 20 years I have worked an awful lot of Christmases, earlies, lates, nights all of them. We have always had a policy wherever I worked that no-one was allowed to book leave at all over the fortnight over Christmas and New year. There would be a rota where you could put a request in for your work preference over the period and this would be reviewed by the management and the rota published fairly based on previous years... So generally if you worked Christmas one year you would get it off ( or a more favourable shift) the following year. But everyone had to work various days over the period, no-one could block book. I think that's the fairest way, it shouldn't depend on whether you have children or not. If you choose to work in a public sector job like nursing or elsewhere that remains open over Christmas then you should accept that working over that festive period is part of the package.

How interesting - we’re coming at this from completely different viewpoints. I believe all people’s needs are equal, but obviously there are times where special consideration is needed for practical reasons (young children, people needing care etc). I wouldn’t automatically prioritise children over adults just because they’re children.

I couldn’t agree more.

Fuck that list. I don’t have children so what, I’m not a priority at all?

I too would be straight to HR. Absolutely no way would I ever allow myself to be bottom of the pecking order due to lack of children.

I think that the entitlement of parents and how that transfers to their children is actually one of the main causes of our dysfunctional society.

@putmeonthebackburner I do agree that your employer's choices and rules are rubbish BUT you are coming across as the most "woe is me" person.
I do not have young children. I like to take time off at certain times to be with those who are important to me, so I get my AL requests in early and will rarely move them because I usually have plans.
At the moment, your intransigence and hatred is not endearing.

Please look up entitlement before you embarrass yourself further. And you might want to read my previous comment, too, where I said I believe others' kids are more important than me. You know precisely nothing about how I'm raising them. How about discussing an issue without resorting to ad hominem attacks?

So in summary, as I don't have children I can never plan anything that might, just might, get in the way of anything that a parent wants or needs. I have to work every single Christmas Eve, all the days between Christmas and New Year, every year, oh and lets not forget half of December being taken up by various carol concerts or Nativity plays.

You're saying "Fuck you, forget about Christmas/Yule/Saturnalia/[insert every single mid winter festival here] for your entire life". And I get told to "be kind"!!!

I’ve just said that to DH. This must have been drawn up by one very entitled grandmother.