Christmas leave priority

As a parent of 3 and grandmother of 1 I’d like to say YANBU. It’s utterly ridiculous that personal circumstances should be taken into account on a public holiday. People have lives no matter if they have children or grandchildren! It should be strict turn taking.

Awful work. I'd leave and find a better place

The OP's comments have been very dramatic in their own right. Don't try and pin her posts too on parents. What are parents not responsible for in your world?

It's not dramatic to suggest it's crap for kids to miss out on Christmas morning with their parents. I have suggested it's traumatising or life wrecking but it's clearly far from ideal. I believe children should be prioritised at Christmas.

That makes me laugh too. I mean, all the stuff in the press and by the GOV about NEETs. A lot of kids about now are not going to be contributing anything.
Unless parents should get priority for xmas leave if their kids are doing well at school. I would love to see the paperwork for that policy.

And it doesn’t mean that children can’t be supported by loving parents to celebrate on a different day.

All these perfect little families spending Christmas Day together, are being facilitated by thousands of people around the country working to keep the water and power going, hospitals running and food supplies continuing. And of course some of them will be mums. You would do well to remember that rather than effectively saying that their kids are going to have an awful Christmas.

Has anyone suggested that this was people's motive for having children? I don't think they have. That doesn't mean that society shouldn't support them in having and raising children though because it's an outcome that society also needs.

Using a different analogy. I have a disabled relative that I help care for. I don't care for him for the good of society. I care for him because he is part of my family and I want to make sure he is ok. It makes obvious sense though for society to support me in doing this as it's also in the best interests of society that family members care for their vulnerable members.

The OP ‘s comments are a response to parents being dramatic and precious about it. You have been one of the worst on here implying that children who can’t spend all of Christmas Day with their working mothers are going to suffer and it’s oh so crap for them all.

Of course having kids is selfish. I had children because I wanted to. I had the urge and I really wanted to be a Mum. I didn’t do it for anyone else.

I’m laughing at the idea that all these selfless people are having children for the future of this country, to be the future noble taxpayers who are going to look after the elderly and keep the economy going. Nobody has children for that reason😂

That's a weird sentiment to apply to children with developing brains and understanding and not to apply to adults like OP. Why can't she understand that she is loved and that Christmas can still be celebrated without her needing Annual Leave exactly when she demands it? It's not just parents being dramatic about all of this is it?

You realise that Christmas is hugely commercialised and culturally focused on children; toys, kids films, Father Xmas, nativity plays. They are central to the day and so yes I expect it matters more to a 6 year old than a 36 year old. That’s not to say adults can’t also enjoy the day and want to spend it with family, but let’s not pretend it means the same to adults as it does to children.

People may not have children due to health reasons so could be disability, could be discrimination on basis of age, a 20 year old is less likely to have children and certainly won't have grandchildren.

An older person is more likely to fit into any of the first 4 categories as they could have grandchildren or children depending on their age, someone younger will only fit into 2 categories max statistically speaking.

That's off the top of my head. Sexual orientation potentially, I don't know the stats but I would imagine straight ppl are more likely to have children or grandchildren.

I mean it's basically a HR nightmare and they are absolutely idiots to put it in writing.

I understand your reasoning, but it doens't convince me that parents should get priority, so we'll have to agre to differ.

Well, all kids are different, I guess. Many children don’t struggle as they are loved and prepared for the day by their parents. If the mother is going to make an emotional drama about it, then the kids will follow suit.

ive seen lots of petitions on MN in the fifteen years ive been on here including tackling the useless CMS (which needs to happen cos they are fucking dire) Ive yet to see one petitioning for childcare to be available at Christmas I wonder why.

I didnt blame the mother. I actually said it was her right to have as many children as she wants. You say it isn't the mother's responsibility to provide adequate maternity cover, rightly so, but it is equally not my responsibility to provide holiday cover for mothers as and when they want, at my expense, that too is the responsibility of the employer, not the childless employee.

As a side note probably the largest female employer in the UK the nhs doesn't provide maternity leave cover for their staff.

*relevant, not relative, damn autocorrect

Given that most staff will have special people that they want to spend time with over the holidays and the policy relates to Christmas Eve, it would be much fairer to give priority to those who have to travel to be able to see those special people.

It’s all very well to say the OP can get up early on Christmas Day but what if she didn’t have a car and was reliant on public transport? Why can’t parents and grandparents who have their families close by simply be organised enough that they have done all their Christmas prep and don’t need Christmas Eve off?

What are you planning to do about it OP? It’s also very late in the year to introduce a policy like this. I’d be drafting an email politely pointing out the history of your leave requests over the year, how much leave you have not been able to use, the issues that this Christmas policy is causing you and ask for a reconsideration of the policy. Or alternatively that you are able to carry forward all your leave given your requests to use it during the year were rejected.

The greater good

Sounds like maternity leave was badly handled by management which isn't the pregnant woman's fault. What was she supposed to do? Never have a baby because the NHS can't or won't cover her work appropriately?

I have as much right to take time off at chosen times as the next person, if YOU have children its up to YOU to weigh up how that will work for YOU not EXPECT the childless others to cover for your choices
I don't think this is realistic, in the same way that it's not realistic to expect anyone with caring responsibilities to never impact their work. Kids get sick and can't go to childcare. You have to have time off to birth the baby and recover from the process. You can't stay behind and cover extra shifts/work if the child care setting is closing. We have to make allowances as a society for this. We can't expect people to work as if they don't have children but then parent as if they don't work. It's too much!

Children exist in society, in the same way that disabled and elderly people do To some extent people without young children or other caring responsibilities do need to support those with them for society to function. No, it won't always be strictly fair but equally being child free has a whole host of documented benefits including being wealthier than your parent equivalents, having lower levels of stress and even having lower levels of cardiac risk. Parents aren't exactly skipping in the daisies with all these alleged benefits they get from bringing much needed children into the world. In many ways they are taking the financial and health hit for you.

I've voted YABU, because if your getting the bank holidays off at christmas and every christmas you don't really have too much to complain about. But annual leave should be done fairly and not based on ability or choice to have children, whether at christmas or any other time of the year.

I genuinely don't understand why they have bought in the policy though, none of the staff are working Christmas Day, Boxing day, Sunday 27th or Monday the 28th.. so why prioritise people with kids for the rest of it? The people with kids will already be at home for the main bit, as will all the child free people.. they've all got plenty of time to see their families, as it's 4 days off for everyone!

What's the point of it?

You might not feel ‘seen’ in society and perhaps feel lesser-than mothers, but I would encourage you to think less about yourself and think more about the greater good.

Thruthfully, if you don't think about yourself, who else will? No one.
Dad but true.

Maybe there should be accessible childcare at all times so everyone can do their work parts....

Fortunately the law evolves and can be changed to better reflect the wants and needs of society.

I doubt a Childress and utterly bitter Sandra who can’t organise herself to visit herself on Christmas Day despite having ample travel time’s needs will ever get recognised as have any priority need of leave…

Have you tried speaking to your employers about this generally or raising the issue in a suitable forum? You come across rather petulant in your posts and it makes me wonder if you have actually tried to discuss and change things rather than just get pissed off that you can't have leave.

You come across like you are stamping your feet and saying 'its not fair' and coming up with all sorts of barriers to why you can't be with your family. If you really wanted to be you would travel to see them on Christmas Eve after work.

That said I do think the policy on booking Christmas Eve is fair but what have you done to try to change it?

I'm not sure that's true as arguably including grandparents could stop claims of age discrimination. If you didn't include them then anyone that's too old to be a parent to young children couldn't qualify. This way, everyone in the workforce could be eligible as you could be a parent or grandparent if you're 18-80 years of age.