Lucy Letby - Specifically those who think she is guilty…

What are your thoughts on the prosecution failing to disclose the email from Ravi Jayaram admitting that Letby had in fact called him in, even though he claimed in court she hadn't? That was in Thirlwall, so there's no worry about Tik Tok here.

Really? Nothing?
Extraordinary.

I have no idea what TikTok has to do with this.

I agree. Nothing has been said that makes me think she is innocent. I am more convinced than ever about her guilt.

I think she's guilty. I think those who are determined to find anything that says she isn't, just can't cope with the fact that she doesn't fit the stereotype of a killer.

Why would I be unable to cope with that?

I worry about anyone who thinks it is an open and shut case. Many serial killers don’t fit the stereotype of a serial killer. It’s just all murky - we all know juries can get things wrong, we all know there have been miscarriages of justice in the past. we all know experts can lie or change their minds (Sir Roy Meadow) we all know people can be made scapegoats. Whether that happened here I have no idea - but to just dismiss the idea it is possible, is naive.

I think she does look typical, she seems very much inside her own head, quiet, introverted, socially awkward, who knows what goes on in her mind.

There was a post on here about men who people knew that turned out to be paedophiles the other day and everyone saying but they were shocked or they didn’t seem the type or they seem so nice and I was shocked but you only know the person they want you to know and what about all the domestic abuse victims who say but nobody would believe it because he’s so lovely in public.

She could have any amount of psychological issuess hiding behind a smile.

It’s not that she’s pretty, she looks pretty ordinary. It’s just that she has a childlike character that makes her seem endearing.

Do you know her personally?

Assuming you don’t, you’ve seen footage from her arrest and a handful of photographs.

The rest you’ve filled in yourself.

To be fair if I was wrongfully arrested, my absolute worst side would come out.
I have Oppositional Defiance Disorder and hate authority and would not keep my cool.
I would be the angriest, hateful, venomous person they ever interviewed if they accused me of that and spoke down to me for it.
if that went public the rest of the world would be convinced I did it.

No one murdered those babies. They were premature, sick and their NHS care was awful.

Most premature and sick babies still don’t die. The deaths were much lower despite the crap unit and the sick and premature demographic when she wasn’t employed there. This is just a thick, lazy, dismissive argument with no thought applied.

"This is just a thick, lazy, dismissive argument with no thought applied."

Rather ironic 😅. Something tells me you know nothing about the actual state of the unit you're talking about. Have you read the reports from the time stating how understaffed etc the unit was? How the consultants were only doing ward rounds twice a week instead of twice a day? For babies weighing a few hundred grams!

Exactly this. Lucy Letby was the scapegoat of babies dying from a NHS unit working way under standard.

Sudden unexplained collapses and deaths of babies alerted doctors to the fact there was very likely foul play. She should have been removed as soon as the risk was highlighted but she wasn't.

I am absolutely convinced she is innocent, but I wouldn’t be able to condense why into a pithy line or two. If you’re interested, take a look at the channel ‘Lucy Letby Analysis’ on YouTube. The journalist Chris Morris has conducted hundreds of interviews now with professionals such as obstetricians, neonatal specialists, midwives, etc, about the case. You need to commit time to it, but if you did I really think you’d become convinced of her innocence too.

I am also convinced she’s innocent, but less convinced that people who have really made up their mind will always change it when prevented with good evidence. There’s a certain mindset that won’t think critically.
The nearest I have got to a pithy line about why I am so sure she’s innocent is that you have to believe far more implausible things to think she’s guilty than that she’s innocent.

It’s nothing to do with her being blonde/mousy, pretty/ordinary looking etc. I don’t have any trouble believing that a polite, well spoken, nice seeming young woman can be a killer- at my age I have known enough people who are a lot less pleasant than they seem. It’s the fact that to believe she’s guilty you have to believe, to name but a few:
-she put insulin into tamper proof feed bags without leaving a trace (nobody has explained how she is supposed to have done this)
-she magically knew which feed bags her colleagues would choose when she was not on duty
-she injured a baby internally with the force of a car crash without leaving any external marks or being seen
-she killed babies through a means never used before (air embolism) which in her case left no trace even though known air embolism deaths can be detected at post mortem by leaving air bubbles in the heart
-she killed babies by over feeding them, also an unknown murder method

Honestly the implausible claims just go on and on.
Someone said upthread that the cluster of deaths of babies in that state is impossible without a killer. Actually as Prof Hutton points out there have been several such clusters in similarly failing hospitals. I would love to know if people who think Letby is guilty think there are undetected serial killers in all of them.

She refused to answer several of the police questions, was very vague and didn't recall certain babies when questioned, lied about not having a shredder to dispose of the notes when one is seen in her house on police cameras, didn't return the notes when brought home 'accidentally', kept the notes arranged alphabetically at home, wrote that she did it, made odd references to the babies in her diary etc. If she is innocent (which I doubt) she certainly did herself no favours....

But as always the question remains... were there any murders?
Many many experts in their field have said that no evidence of murder was found.. therefore everything else including odd or unprofessional behaviour is irrelevant.

There weren't any sudden unexplained collapses... the babies mostly had postmortems which found causes of death. Spoiler... it wasn't air embolism in any of them. The consultants, doing 2 ward rounds a week, who were Paediatricians as opposed to Neonatologists, couldn't work out why them not being present on a filthy ward run by inexperienced nursing staff, meant a higher number of babies were dying than expected! They looked for someone to blame (a scapegoat if you will) and should have taken a look in the mirror. It is all absolute madness.

This would happen on any intensive care unit again if you replicated the same circumstances.

She worked there from 2012.

Of course most premature babies don't die. Most premature babies at Chester didn't die, even in its worst period. But some did.

We know that failures in care lead, tragically, to extra infant deaths. That has been all over the news for units other than Chester. It makes sense to ask whether this was the case at Chester too. There's no indication that the police ever did this. There are multiple reports from sources both confident in the prosecution and otherwise that they instead took their accounts of unexplained deaths and collapses direct from the medics who would have been responsible for these failings in care.

A duty solicitor will often advise you not to answer questions, especially not when they are asked repeatedly.

I think the point is no one would be questioning the conviction of a very obviously guilty woman if she has from another demographic.

I never saw all this support for Ben Geen, Colin Norris, Victorino Chua?

People need to engage with the actual evidence if they're genuinely interested in this case. Of course you think she's innocent when they had a very biased documentary leaving out ALL the damning evidence! Her PR team is trying their best to turn public opinion-don't be fooled by it.

People believed Sally Clark and Angela Cannings were very obviously guilty - the abuse they got from the public was disgusting. They got little public support. Sally Clark never recovered. I don’t think it is a demographic thing.